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HUSSAR

Boeing to Weigh Options for Future of Popular 737

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They've got to do it, the A320 has been outselling it for quite a long time now, and the A320neo is only going to make that worse.Al

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They have been testing models with the new geared turbofan engines. Right now I think this is the best option for a stop gap before they can go head-on into another clean sheet design.I am more interested in the new laminar flow technology they just installed on one of the 787 test beds.

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Not to mention the other companies introducing jets in this market like the Bombardier CSeries, Comac C919, Sukhoi Superjet 100, Embraer 195, and Kawasaki YPX.No shortage of contenders in this market.

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Not to mention the other companies introducing jets in this market like the Bombardier CSeries, Comac C919, Sukhoi Superjet 100, Embraer 195, and Kawasaki YPX.No shortage of contenders in this market.
None of those except maybe for the Comac C919 can compete in the 737NG, A320 class. They are for the most part regional jets. While the Comac C919 may match the smaller variants in passenger capacity, it's range is lower.

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None of those except maybe for the Comac C919 can compete in the 737NG, A320 class. They are for the most part regional jets. While the Comac C919 may match the smaller variants in passenger capacity, it's range is lower.
A lot of 737 and A320 routes have traditionaly been short haul routes so this is where these other jets coming to market will succeed. Bombardier and Embraer currently have good market shares with other aircraft and will most likely see growth with these new models, as well as the Sukhoi Superjet 100 over in Russian markets and it's neighbours. These will effect the bottom line for Boeing and Airbus where airlines had been using 737's and A320's for short hauls. Where I live Air New Zealand has been using 737's for short hauls for a long time now so when they replace that fleet their will be 7 aircraft to choose from instead of 2. They are currently ordering A320's for short hauls and plan to replace the 737's with A320's. These routes are only from Auckland to Wellington and Christchurch (40 minute flights).Air Canada (and Jazz) is another airline that uses Embraer's and A320's over 737's on many of its routes now, and Canada is the second largest land mass in the world. So Embraer 190's have proven successful in Canada already.My preference is the Boeing 737 however I recognize how slow Boeing reacted to the A320 in taking a long time to get the 737NG to market. This hurt their market share, traditional Boeing customers like United Airlines when with the Airbus instead. Now with a lot more competition out there it will lower market share even more. Boeing also has to sort out the 787 and the 747-800 so a newer 737 will most likely arrive much too late again. Airbus already has 80 orders for the A320NEO and Boeing is just begining to talk about a 737 to compete with that.Airbus also plans to replace the A320 with a New Short Haul or A320NSH. At least they recognize the largest market share is in short haul's and not extended ranges.

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We go from Boston to West Palm Beach once or twice a year to viist the in-laws. In the winter, Jet Blue flies A320s, but in the summer the traffic is lighter and they fly the same routes with RJs. Since Jet Blue is one of those "upstart" airlines that's profitable, I assume that they are simply using their brains to "right-size" the planes for the routes on a seasonal basis.The Southwest skin tear a few months ago reminds us that the 737 fleet is getting old. At some point, replacement won't be an option, it will be a necessity.

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Ryanair operates a fleet of some 270 B737-800s. However, it's reported in The Time today that Ryanair's has signed an agreementl with the Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China (COMAC) to advise on the development of COMAC's C919. Although the agreement doesn't (yet?) include purchase of aircraft, it could be a pointer to the future. First deliveries of the C919 are expected in 2016.

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I haven't been keeping up with all this aviation news and technology lately because of school but it seems to me like Boeing is losing support on the 737 even though there are airlines like AirTran, American replacing their 737s and SouthWest replacing some of their older 737 fleet. The thing is, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that Airbus has had the A320 for a long time without updating and introducing as many variants as the Boeing 737. It seems like many airlines are replacing the 737 in favor of the Airbus A320 and I wonder if that's because the cabin width is slightly longer or if it's because of crew friendliness in terms of systems. I'm not sure what the burn rate is on the A320 but maybe it's also more fuel efficient... I'm not going to lie though... I like the layout of the A320 cockpit far more than the Boeing 737's layout.. it just seems cleaner and spacious. I don't like the Airbus systems that much though (too many automated functions) except the MCDU seems easy to use.The 737 has lived a long life and I think that it's time for there to be a fresh new place in the Boeing series, besides... there's no space for another plane really cause there is a 737-900 unless they want a 737-1000 LOL.

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I don't see Boeing recovering it's former market shares. Boeing doesn't get the same sort of subsidies from the US Government as other aircraft manufacturers. This hurts R&D for Boeing and the 787 is really showing a burden on them financially right now. I don’t see a new 737 happening anytime soon, and they likely won’t get any help from the US Government for a new 737 program.Other nations like Canadian Government subsidises Bombardier, De havilland and Canadair, Brazil subsidises Embraer and the European Union subsidises Airbus Industries. As long as this continues it will be difficult for Boeing to compete with these other nations.

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I don't see Boeing recovering it's former market shares. Boeing doesn't get the same sort of subsidies from the US Government as other aircraft manufacturers. This hurts R&D for Boeing and the 787 is really showing a burden on them financially right now. I don’t see a new 737 happening anytime soon, and they likely won’t get any help from the US Government for a new 737 program.Other nations like Canadian Government subsidises Bombardier, De havilland and Canadair, Brazil subsidises Embraer and the European Union subsidises Airbus Industries. As long as this continues it will be difficult for Boeing to compete with these other nations.
'official' subsidies...no, but its no coincidence that the US Govt slants EVERY major contract / bidding process in the favour of Boeing, hence why the complaint from Boeing to the WTO was countered with this argument from EADS/Airbus.

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'official' subsidies...no, but its no coincidence that the US Govt slants EVERY major contract / bidding process in the favour of Boeing, hence why the complaint from Boeing to the WTO was countered with this argument from EADS/Airbus.
But dosen't this only effect military purchases?

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But dosen't this only effect military purchases?
Yes it only affects Military Purchases. But going back to my original point that was I don't see Boeing recovering it's former market shares. The US Government purchasing KC-767's does nothing for the commercial sales of Boeing Aircraft. All it does is injects a bit of cash flow that helps temporarily. It is not the same as the subsidies that are part of the Airbus program or the Aviation Programs in Canada and Brazil.When you subsidize a commercial aircraft program then that will directly lower the cost of the sale of that aircraft. The US Government ordering KC-767 wouldn't put a dent in the sale price of a commercial 787. If the US Government subsidised the 787 program then that would make a 787 more competitive to Airbus.The USA is generally not in the business of subsidising private corporations as that is not the way the US Government operates. US Airliners that purchase Airbus get the rewards from those European Subsidies as those subsidies make the sale of those aircraft more competitve compared to purchasing an American built aircraft. This is the reason why you see more and more Airbus, Dash 8's, CRJ's and Embraer's operating in the USA. Europe, Canada and Brazil have created a marketing strategy that is going to continue to hurt Boeing for a very long time.

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Yes it only affects Military Purchases. But going back to my original point that was I don't see Boeing recovering it's former market shares. The US Government purchasing KC-767's does nothing for the commercial sales of Boeing Aircraft. All it does is injects a bit of cash flow that helps temporarily. It is not the same as the subsidies that are part of the Airbus program or the Aviation Programs in Canada and Brazil.When you subsidize a commercial aircraft program then that will directly lower the cost of the sale of that aircraft. The US Government ordering KC-767 wouldn't put a dent in the sale price of a commercial 787. If the US Government subsidised the 787 program then that would make a 787 more competitive to Airbus.The USA is generally not in the business of subsidising private corporations as that is not the way the US Government operates. US Airliners that purchase Airbus get the rewards from those European Subsidies as those subsidies make the sale of those aircraft more competitve compared to purchasing an American built aircraft. This is the reason why you see more and more Airbus, Dash 8's, CRJ's and Embraer's operating in the USA. Europe, Canada and Brazil have created a marketing strategy that is going to continue to hurt Boeing for a very long time.
I agree. My post was directed toward Glenn's comment alluding that "...US Govt slants EVERY major contract / bidding process in the favour of Boeing..." would/might be equivalent to the subsidies of other nations. As you say, US Govt contract/bid practices does almost nothing for Boeing's commercial side.

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I agree. My post was directed toward Glenn's comment alluding that "...US Govt slants EVERY major contract / bidding process in the favour of Boeing..." would/might be equivalent to the subsidies of other nations. As you say, US Govt contract/bid practices does almost nothing for Boeing's commercial side.
And can you imagine if the US Air Force did go with Airbus tanker over the KC-767 for the replacement KC-135. They were leaning towards Airbus for a while their after that scandal with Boeing.I am a big big Boeing fan however in my country we are seeing more and more Airbus and Dash 8's as well. Goes to show those subsidies are working.

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Military or Commercial...the money ends up in Boeings coffers. There are two sides to every story. You will note that the WTO also rejected 70% of Boeings original claim in the final report."In Brussels, Mandelson argued that Boeing has received more than $29 billion in support from U.S. federal and state governments, defense contracts and launch investment since 1992, compared to Airbus, which has only received $3.7 billion.According to the European Commission trade office, Boeing has received $3.2 billion worth of tax incentives and $4.2 billion in subsidies for infrastructure from Washington state, $1.6 billion in launch investment from Japan and more than $20 billion from research and development funding from NASA and the U.S. Department of Defense."Source - http://www.spacedaily.com/news/aerospace-4zg.html"Like Boeing, Airbus parent EADS has a defense business, but it is a far smaller proportion of revenue and not as profitable."Source - http://www.forbes.com/2009/09/11/wto-airbus-ruling-business-oxford-analytica.html"The core of the EU's challenge is the lavish R&D support provided by the US Department of Defense and NASA through various means, as well as Boeing-specific support provided at state and local level, such as subsidy packages tailor-made for Boeing in the states of Washington, Kansas and Illinois," the EU says in a statement.It estimates the total value of subsidies offered by the US Government and US states to Boeing at $23.6 billion. "The support clearly aims at weakening Airbus' position and competitiveness and boosting that of Boeing," it adds. Source - http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2007/09/27/217255/ec-puts-forward-counter-case-in-wto-airbus-boeing-dispute.html

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