Hmm....does not look good...

[Tierborn 188]

Technically, that would be a third copy for me, since I already have two copies of FSX. But in any case that's not true, since it is rather different in a good many respects (try diving a submarine in FSX for example), and if it was not, they'd hardly be able to suggest paying 500 Bucks for it and keep a straight face. Al

Are you serious ...... Happens all the time: A few examples. Xplane - 20$ ...Xplane pro lvl2- 500$ ....Xplane pro lvl3 - 1,000$ (hardly 980$ difference) Adobe creative suite 1,900$Adobe Creative suite student - 350$ (no difference) When call my travel agent for business travel vs personal travel ..i pay a hefty premium for the business travel to the same locations.

[Sharrow 0]

I cannot imagine that John did not consider his words very carefully in that interview. It was a written interview too so no doubt there would have been enough time to retract it if neccesary.

[frankla 44]

Well, the only ones who would steer me away from MS and Flight, would be MS themselves if it was not what I wanted. I'm pretty sure everyone else can make their own mind up about that too. Flight will speak for itself when we see it. If Orbx came on here and said Super Mario Flying Plane World was the best thing since sliced bread, would you believe them without question, or make your own mind up? Al

If I told you the same thing as Orbx stated today in their interview, you would laugh me out of these forums and call me a troll. However after Orbx was quoted here, everyone, including me got worried. So obviously they do have more influence than you care to agree.

[shivers9 1,174]

If they feel so just and right, why have then not just come out and say that they no longer will be obligated to NDA? I think they still have legal and moral obligation. They may wish to sue MS for breach of contract and ask for losses due to time spent on Flight, but they have no right to come here and steer people away against MS.

I have no need for a fight here but I feel and I think many on this forum feel that John and ORBX team are pretty straight shooters. Let's not shoot the messenger here.

[Tierborn 188]

This cat is telling you that he is disgusted with Orbx. Either they are under NDA and they just breached it or they couldn't possibly know enough to start such rumors in their interview with the mentioned web site. It is one or the other and either way their behavior is appalling. That is my point you are getting your so called "glimpse" from Orbx. How can they be trusted after the way they acted?

I knew this wasnt a "lost" in translation issue (As Chock suggested) .. Ur a California boy ... My point .... I just don't see the appalling behavior you are talking about.

[Chock 17,769]

The difference is in how it runs, i.e. its use of multi-cores and the GPU, it's potential, and its additional features. Thus it is different in ways that really matter. Which incidentally, is also the case for all of the other examples you quoted, especially Creative Suite, since the student version is not the extended version of the CS apps and does not have all of them either, moreover it isn't 1,900 bucks for Creative Suite, it's a lot more than that, there are I think the last time I counted, thirteen applications in CS, and they average about 250 quid a pop. Most of the student versions are a selection of the big three, typically PS, InDesign and Illustrator, with occasionally Acrobat in there as well, but they aren't the extended versions. Al

[frankla 44]

I cannot imagine that John did not consider his words very carefully in that interview. It was a written interview too so no doubt there would have been enough time to retract it if neccesary.

What difference does that make? I don't believe he threw his accusations in the interview accidentally which makes it even worse. He may have every reason to be angry at MS for whatever reason it may be, but his reaction is foul and unacceptable to me.

[dmaher 0]

Indeed, this very issue has also baffled me for a while. It's like they were not sure themselves what would be in it until (apparently) a week or so ago.

I'm a little surprise the pattern isn't more apparent. This isn’t a Flight or MS thing. All games do this. The PR is just to build some awareness and enthusiasm. Beyond that every company does its best to say as little as possible. Because any feature mentioned becomes an implied promise. Like FSX and DX10 – what a disaster. It is best not to say anything. And most game devs don’t. They need the option to cut scope to meet deadlines. Talking freely removes that option. Once it’s in the box then they can talk. The downside is when you don't talk, your fans go conspiracy theory mode. We just need to accept they'll talk when they are ready - that is the norm.

[Orbx 123]

This cat is telling you that he is disgusted with Orbx. Either they are under NDA and they just breached it or they couldn't possibly know enough to start such rumors in their interview with the mentioned web site. It is one or the other and either way their behavior is appalling. That is my point you are getting your so called "glimpse" from Orbx. How can they be trusted after the way they acted?

Careful Frank, or you may find yourself getting a letter from our legal counsel for slander. At no time have we ever stated we are under NDA with MS. Even if we were, we could not confirm nor deny it. You refer to my recent interview at a blog site where I share my opinion about Flight being very different to FSX. If you stop for a moment and have a deep think about that, there is enough information which has been publicly released on the official Flight website to determine some simple things: 1. They are clearly developing a very beautiful and attractive sim, which appears to build on FSX and add a lot of nice shader code and then some. This is something that we as developers can easily establish using our eyes. We're actually really excited by what they are producing and we hope that we can develop addons for it some day, once we get our hands on an SDK. This is no different to FS2004 and FSX. First comes the sim, then the SDK, then third party addons. 2. They have only shown screenshots and video from what appears to be Hawaii, and as far as we can tell, only smaller aircraft. We hope to see screenshots from other parts of the world, but so far these are not forthcoming. This leads us to conclude the initial release may be localised to one area. Again, this is simply a matter of logical deduction, not any breach of some supposed NDA. 3. They have publicly stated that there will be a strong tie-in to Games For Windows Live, which as we all know is now known as XBOX Live. Again, this probably means that their release model may be different to FSX and FS2004 before it. We have zero clue as to how Flight is going to be distributed or released. Once again, this is just using pure logic. So please understand, based on the above public information, I was able to say in the interview that I think Flight is a different proposition to FSX, purely based on what we know. If you would like to continue to imply that somehow we are behaving in an improper manner then I suggest to think long and hard about doing so. We take a very dim view of any NDA breach, since we have Orbx NDAs in place with many companies and we expect them to respect our paperwork too. We are a developer, and we deal in facts. I have simply offered my opinion on known facts. Please leave it at that and not embark on accusations or wild speculation.

[shivers9 1,174]

What difference does that make? I don't believe he threw his accusations in the interview accidentally which makes it even worse. He may have every reason to be angry at MS for whatever reason it may be, but his reaction is foul and unacceptable to me.

OK you are upset about something...but foul and unacceptable? I disagree

[frankla 44]

I knew this wasnt a "lost" in translation issue (As Chock suggested) .. Ur a California boy ... My point .... I just don't see the appalling behavior you are talking about.

Well Michi boy, in our neck of the wood either ORBX started lies or broke their NDA. Its one or another. To this California Boy either way what they did is just wrong and unworthy of a talented creator of quality products.

[Orbx 123]

Well Michi boy, in our neck of the wood either ORBX started lies or broke their NDA. Its one or another. To this California Boy either way what they did is just wrong and unworthy of a talented creator of quality products.

If you persist in this line Frank I will contact the AVSIM mods and have them take action. This is not acceptable to us. This is my last warning.

[SpiritFlyer 987]

John Venema having an opinion does little to fully persuade me for or against FLIGHT. Everyone, including him, is entitled to have, and to state, their opinion. Besides, his thoughts are likely to be just as informed as they are widely respected. However, his ORBX's decision to integrate their existing and new sceneries into Prepar3D is overwhelmingly compelling for me. The $9.99 a month for Prepar3D clinched the deal. That does not mean that FLIGHT or X-PLANE 10 will not be great, whatever they may become. However with 5 years of hard work, and nearly $10,000 of hardware and software invested in FSX, an advanced fixed version of it is irresistible. It is just what I have been waiting and hoping for. It is as simple as that. So thank you John for your candor, and thank you Lockheed Martin for being smart enough to sieze a great opportunity, and thank you Microsoft for selling ESP to them. Great teamwork so let's move forward. As for the rest of the ...character slurs and such...to each his own, but be very careful, for it is easy to go too far. Kind regards

[dmaher 0]

The difference is in how it runs, i.e. its use of multi-cores and the GPU, it's potential, and its additional features. Thus it is different in ways that really matter.

The real difference, or at leat the original difference, is you can take your Prepar out on the street put out a guitar case and collect change from onlookers. The 400 dollars gives you that right. But the interesting thing will be can LM somehow invest more in an enterprise sim than MS can in an entertainment sim?

[shivers9 1,174]

John Venema having an opinion does little to persuade me for or against FLIGHT. However, his and ORBX's decision to integrate their existing and new sceneries into Prepar3D is overwhelmingy compelling for me. The $9.99 a month for Prepar3D clinched the deal. That does not mean that FLIGHT or X-PLANE 10 will not be great, whatever they become. However with 5 years of hard work, and nearly $10,000 of hardware and software invested in FSX, an advanced fixed version of it is irresistible. It is just what I have been waiting and hoping for. To each his/her own. Kind regards

Very good point...wish I could rite purtty words like that.....lol!!