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simon747

Hmm....does not look good...

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At least my 2,500 usd worth of add-ons will get a nice long run for their money:) The add-ons for the fs9/fsx platforms are what make it worth it for me. :)

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If Orbx is under NDA, how could they offer such insight? And if they are not involved, how would they know? Something doesn't seem right about this whole thing

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One of two things...Orbx is under a NDA and are pi$$sed as much as other devs. are and by been shut down they don't care anymore or it's a conspiracy from MS and the devs to fool all of us....will Orbx put their reputation at risk by making false statement like 10 min. taxi did?.....we are not talking about a new kid on the block here...what's plausible to you? EDIT: post # 10 from the top.....this is also not a new kid on the block.... http://www.flytampa....e12df99995135a3

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This is sure ends for me... Orbx is one of the important developer in Fs community.Ms FLIGHT is nothing to interest for "us" sim players.If John from Orbx said so, it must be true and stop speculation!!!I thing all of seriously sim players should gone from this forum and never back,LEAVE THE CHILDREN TO PLAY WITH IT - and talking about it here.- FSX, X-PLANE 10 and PREPAR 3D - it should be under our focus.brdsMartin

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This is disappointing to read... then there is another comment on that page: "I am another developer who can confirm that the information above is correct. MS have cut off all ties with developers. Flight is a kiddie-sim with no ATC, airlines, or anything remotely close to FSX. Please respect developers who post anonymously. If you were a single person revealing information from a massive corporation you would do the same thing. There is going to be a backlash about this for sure." I respect ORBX's opinion... the whole thing seems really weird though since he is practically admitting that he was/is under NDA... So many questions and few answers.

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yea, but I take orbx as a worthy source...
Yup...
One of two things...Orbx is under a NDA and are pi$$sed as much as other devs. are and by been shut down they don't care anymore or it's a conspiracy from MS and the devs to fool all of us....will Orbx put their reputation at risk by making false statement like 10 min. taxi did?.....we are not talking about a new kid on the block here...what's plausible to you? EDIT: post # 10 from the top.....this is also not a new kid on the block.... http://www.flytampa....e12df99995135a3
Correct. I firmly believe as another Avsim member posted where there is smoke there is fire and it applies here. What we are seeing is the public bubbling over of some internal battle between MS and the add on developers. And if I were a betting man I say the first assumption and the post by Anonymous is probably correct. MS has locked out the add on devs, they are very upset and are speaking out.

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Please do NOT associate Orbx with the recent rumors and unrest.I can neither confirm nor deny were are under NDA, and I can neither confirm nor deny that any of the recent speculation or rumors are true or false. I believe that this is the politically correct way in which we are entitled to comment on these matters.As for my comments on what Flight appears to be in comparison to FSX, until I see screenshots from MS which shows anything outside Hawaii, my perception is unchanged.

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Please do NOT associate Orbx with the recent rumors and unrest. I can neither confirm nor deny were are under NDA, and I can neither confirm nor deny that any of the recent speculation or rumors are true or false. I believe that this is the politically correct way in which we are entitled to comment on these matters. As for my comments on what Flight appears to be in comparison to FSX, until I see screenshots from MS which shows anything outside Hawaii, my perception is unchanged.
John, Are you planning on going into politics?LOL.gif

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Please do NOT associate Orbx with the recent rumors and unrest. I can neither confirm nor deny were are under NDA, and I can neither confirm nor deny that any of the recent speculation or rumors are true or false. I believe that this is the politically correct way in which we are entitled to comment on these matters. As for my comments on what Flight appears to be in comparison to FSX, until I see screenshots from MS which shows anything outside Hawaii, my perception is unchanged.
Understandable... but I fear that what we are seeing is infact the public boiling over of an internal battle or outright anger by developers at MS for what may well be a (now) closed system. If MS has decided to focus on some type of X-Box style SIM this would indeed make all the sense in the world, financially. When you see that X-Box gaming profits are up almost 45% for the full year, due to the ongoing momentum of the console, Kinect, and Xbox Live. Xbox 360... http://www.microsoft.com/investor/EarningsAndFinancials/Earnings/PressReleaseAndWebcast/FY11/Q4/default.aspx

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You know, it's not rocket science to understand why developers might be annoyed with an attempt to wrest the control of add-ons from third party developers, after all, MS created the gravy train which those devs ride on, but that does not mean they owe them a living, and if that living in its present incarnation goes, and I was making money from it, I wouldn't like it either and would, understandably, feel like I'd had the rug pulled from under me. But what we also have to understand is that if there are payware add-ons to be made for Flight and sold by MS, then somebody has to make them, MS cannot pluck them out of their &@($*, so there would still be work for developers, just not necessarily with as much control over what does and does not get made, and how much is made when doing so. So that's not going to make independent developers exactly jump for joy, is it? Thus the notion that developers have had their nose put out of joint doesn't necessarily prove Flight is dumbed down. It may well be, but that situation alone doesn't confirm it to be the case. But there would certainly be one winner who could profit from all that, and turn out to be a saviour for indie devs as well, and that would be the owners of Prepar3D (or however it is they spell it). So stand by to pay a lot more for a flight sim, but in doing so, expect to get a very much better one for your money. And if that happens, MS will have thrown the baby out with the bathwater. Oops. 40,000 hard core simmers (as the estimate goes) at 400 Dollars a copy, 16 million bucks, not including add-ons. Now that kind of mathematics is a no brainer for a development company, especially when they can sell it as a professional tool as well and make even more money. And you just know all those hard core types are going to love the fact that they are buying a sim from the company that made the SR-71 Blackbird, the real one that is: 'need the specs to make a model of it? yup, they're in that drawer over there, careful with those, they're the originals'. Al

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I for one would be 100% ready to pay 500 bucks for a base simulator which is being updated, taken care of, follows hardware and runs great on current hardware.500 is a lot, but my expectations would be also way higher. But what is the status of that simulator?

And if that happens, MS will have thrown the baby out with the bathwater. Oops.
A big oops.

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Isn't LM specifically prohibited from selling Prepard3D to consumers?

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Alan has hit the nail on its head :)Orbx is developing for Prepar3D because there is a published freely available SDK for it, just like FSX. The word on the street is that there will be new pricing models for Prepar3D which will remove the barrier to entry for hardcore simmers. And our stuff runs on it with only some minor changes. So guess what? We'd be fools not to port our stuff to it, especially when you have very talented ex-ACES devs working on an assured, stable code line which will be getting closer to the CPU/GPU metal. No brainer really.So now the Flight situation. When the SDK is available to developers we can make a call on whether we port to it. It may not be worth our while doing so. We won't know until we see the beast, won't we? Until then, all we have are some screenshots and a few videos, a rampart conjecture machine here at AVSIM, and what appears to be some seriously peeved developers.

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Isn't LM specifically prohibited from selling Prepard3D to consumers?
I don't see them blocking me from buying it...

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From another thread:Hi, Just to be clear (and trying not to sound defensive!). Anyone can purchase Prepar3D. We do not sell it as an entertainment product and the EULA talks about that, which means that it will not be appearing on the shelves of Best Buy next to Call of Duty any time soon..... I am not sure where the rumour started that we sell only to certain people, but anyone can buy it. It isn't about consumers, but end-use. If you are a pilot, simulation user, student, whatever and want to use it for familiarization, training, taxiing over bugs then go for it. If you are 10 or 110 it doesn't matter. If you want to use it at an arcade game, then buy something else. You can go to our website and purchase it with a credit card and download it. The commercial license version is $499 and we have added a considerable amount of features and made a lot of bug fixes to the code that we were fortunate enough to procure from Microsoft. A list of features can be found on our website at www.prepar3D.com. We certainly have added in bathymetry data to allow the use of submersibles and we have added in a few features for hard-core users that they should find interesting including true multi-channel (spreads the load of the image generator across multiple PCs), update to DirectInput 8 to allow up to 32 axes and 128 buttons per joystick, sensor views (night vision and infra-red), updated landclasses, GPS upgrades and so on. We have also updated and improved the SDK documentation and added more samples for developers. We are also going to be releasing an update version 1.2 of Prepar3D and the SDK in the next few weeks. Those that are looking to test, integrate, develop, investigate etc and therefore do not require a full commercial license can subscribe for $9.95 per month and receive 2 copies of the software. That is an option that many people are taking and I would be glad to see more people come on board and see what they can do with the app! There are no restrictions to joining the developer network. If people are using Prepar3D for commercial activities, then switching to the commercial license is appropriate and required. For Victor, sorry that the website isn't clear enough. I will work with Lockheed communications to try to get some clarity on that. We are just a bunch of engineers and not necessarily the best at marketing!! Regards,John NicolPrepar3D. And they also said update 1.2 is in the works. Updating rendering engine to DX11, with 64bits engine for some later point maybe. It's all in the thread in the PMDGs forums.

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Can I also further echo Alan's comments by saying that Microsoft does not owe anything to developers with regards to Flight. It is their IP to develop and market to whatever demographic they deem fit. They don't owe us any favors; indeed it is their generosity in releasing SDKs for previous versions of Flight Simulator which have allowed Orbx and other developers to prosper, and for that we are grateful. Indeed we see a long and prosperous road ahead for us with FSX, and hopefully one day that may extend to Flight. But we don't control that timeline nor can we demand them to include us until they are good and ready to open the platform to third parties if at all.I think we are enjoying a good period for flight simulation on the Intel platform. FSX, Prepar3D now available, and XP-10 and Flight on the way. There is room for all these platforms to co-exist and thrive, since it allows simmers to choose what suits their hobby the best.Goodness me, I am really beginning to sound like a politician now, haha!

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HelloThe monthly subscription for P3D is a bargain if you are at all serious about your flight simming.The time has now arrived for those who are serious about our hobby to jump onboard Prepar3D, it is the price of two beers in my local pub per month.It is either that or learn to love Austin and XPlane. So there is a version of FSX out there with ongoing development by some of the ex ACES guys that may eventually leverage the newest hardware and we are sitting around discussing what MS will do with what looks like a stripped down and locked platform. If we had been offered that when aces was disbanded we would have been all over it for $9.99 Per month

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we have added a considerable amount of features and made a lot of bug fixes to the code that we were fortunate enough to procure from Microsoft.
You have the FSX source code? OMG, that's great! Why has Prepar3D been so "under the radar"? Seems like Prepar3D is where the future of FSX lies, not with Flight. Is Prepar3D is compatible with existing FSX add-ons? If it is then seems like you're on a winner... I imagine it would be relatively easy for venders to "port" their products to Prepare3D, hopefully with a discount for existing customers who are upgrading to a Prepar3D version.
Those that are looking to test, integrate, develop, investigate etc and therefore do not require a full commercial license can subscribe for $9.95 per month and receive 2 copies of the software.
$9.95 per month! That's a bargin! edit: Oh I just realized your post is a repost from John Nicol.

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Alan has hit the nail on its head :) Orbx is developing for Prepar3D because there is a published freely available SDK for it, just like FSX. The word on the street is that there will be new pricing models for Prepar3D which will remove the barrier to entry for hardcore simmers. And our stuff runs on it with only some minor changes. So guess what? We'd be fools not to port our stuff to it, especially when you have very talented ex-ACES devs working on an assured, stable code line which will be getting closer to the CPU/GPU metal. No brainer really. So now the Flight situation. When the SDK is available to developers we can make a call on whether we port to it. It may not be worth our while doing so. We won't know until we see the beast, won't we? Until then, all we have are some screenshots and a few videos, a rampart conjecture machine here at AVSIM, and what appears to be some seriously peeved developers.
Excellent!!!

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Just bought a monthly subscription for Prepar3D. I see REX are also partners alongside OrbX. Cool. Is there a Prepar3D sub-forum in AVSIM's future perhaps?

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