Hmm....does not look good...

[frankla 44]

If you persist in this line Frank I will contact the AVSIM mods and have them take action. This is not acceptable to us. This is my last warning.

Warning about what? This is a second time you have threatened me for expressing my displeasure at your behavior and I should be the one worried? Shouldn't you be the one threatened for removal for threatening others? You threatened to sue me for not liking what you did? Go ahead, I have no assets, but you do.

[Jacoba 55]

They have only shown screenshots and video from what appears to be Hawaii, and as far as we can tell, only smaller aircraft. We hope to see screenshots from other parts of the world, but so far these are not forthcoming. This leads us to conclude the initial release may be localised to one area. Again, this is simply a matter of logical deduction,

Something far too few here seem to be able to apply to this whole situation, why who knows... Maybe its because they do infact see what others are trying to point out and they don't like it. If so, it still does not erase the fact that what we know now (about Flight) and the obvious ruckus that has erupted in the past few weeks amongst the developers and or MS does not bode well. Personally I feel there is something to all this innuendo and back and forth that is taking place not only here and on other FS forums but deep inside many developers forums too... far too many folks seem to be upset over this for it to just be some rumor some dude posted on Youtube... While we may infact be well off base, it still does not erase the fact that something is going on.

[WarpD 824]

Warning about what? This is a second time you have threatened me for expressing my displeasure at your behavior and I should be the one worried? Shouldn't you be the one threatened for removal for threatening others? You threatened to sue me for not liking what you did? Go ahead, I have no assets, but you do.

Actually you've made unfounded accusations regarding another AVSIM member. That's a direct violation of the terms of service here. Saying you don't like what someone posted is one thing... saying that they've broken an NDA (of which you have no evidence one way or the other) is actually something called libel (because it's in 'print').

[shivers9 1,174]

Well all in all I would say we at least have an idea of where the hobby is heading. We all knew there was smoke on the horizon but now we know there is a pretty good fire burning there also. Time for sleep in Florida!!

[MatthewS 761]

Okay, for anyone taking the plunge, here's what you do, register on the Prepar3d site, you'll get an email confirmation with your password and then you can buy a subscription or licence when you log in. If you buy the simple 9.99 option (CC only, no paypal), you get a download link to three files. They are 2.4Gb, 3.9Gb and 3.9Gb, so you are looking at downloading 10.5 (ish) Gb, which since I decided to give a whirl out of curiosity, is coming down my ADSL connection at about 122kb a second, which is pretty damn slow (about a tenth of the speed I get stuff coming through off Steam), so it'll take about eight and a half hours for it to come down the pipe at that speed, although it may pick up speed when the smaller one is through.

Will be very interesting to read your thoughts on Prepar3D. Could you possibly comment on the following:-1) Performance or visual improvements over FSX.2) Does it run the PMDG NGX?3) Could you post any included "readme" files that describe the changes the devs made (or maybe this info is available on the web somewhere?).

[dmaher 0]

Maybe its because they do infact see what others are trying to point out and they don't like it. If so, it still does not erase the fact that what we know now (about Flight) and the obvious ruckus that has erupted in the past few weeks amongst the developers and or MS does not bode well.

Jacoba, John spells out some observations, we can all see, and comes to a personal opinion - he shared.And it is a reasonable opinion - look at the screenshots - and you'll tend to agree. It is not an NDA issue; the pictures are available to everyone.He's posted twice now to explain this - and ask folks not the read more into his remarks. Then you say, "If so, it still does not erase the fact that what we know now (about Flight) and the obvious ruckus that has erupted in the past few weeks amongst the developers and or MS does not bode well."So I don't know what you mean by "what we know now" and all of that.We don't 'know' much at all - and John has twice tried to remove himself from the rumors. BTW frankla just forced the ambiguity to an ultimatum.And gave an opprunity for John to bring the point home...he's got no place in the rumor.

[frankla 44]

Actually you've made unfounded accusations regarding another AVSIM member. That's a direct violation of the terms of service here. Saying you don't like what someone posted is one thing... saying that they've broken an NDA (of which you have no evidence one way or the other) is actually something called libel (because it's in 'print').

In no place I claimed they broke an NDA. Nor did I even claim they are under NDA. I said that if they are not under NDA then they are spreading rumors. If they are under NDA they have broken it. The word "if" removes any intent of accusation and places my statements as opinion. I am done here. I will send MS a note about the interview and this discussion here and let MS decide on what they perceive of ORBX actions. I will also let AVSIM decide if they want to throw me out because , god forbid, I criticized a developer's action.

[whitav8 98]

I have been using Prepar3D for several months and, for the most part, my experience with it is pretty similar to that of FSX - performance, config files (file locations are all different, of course), (not sure about ATC/AI) and the rest - but just keep in mind that many FSX scenery and aircaft addons are designed specifically for FSX and won't work without either trivial (filename/folder changes) or possibly major modifications in order to use them with P3D. There is also the question of whether an FSX license-to-use is valid for P3D - that will have to be answered on a case by case basis. Possibly, some addons will cost more when used with P3D - not sure. I am hoping that the newest release - 1.2 - will have some needed GUI changes as well. Be sure to check out the prepar3d.com forums for yourself and you will see that there hasn't been a whole lost of action as of yet. Certainly, LM would welcome you enthusiasts and the momentum that you might bring along with you. A possible forum topic on the P3D site would list addons that need changes and, if someone has figured it out, just what the changes are. Another major topic might be performance comparisons from FSX to P3D. A hot button for me is to be able to use more cores in an efficient manner. I don't want to be forced to use multiple PCs in order to drive more monitors. What I do like is to be able to ask for a change and not hear "Fixed in next rev 3 years from now". I think Tim Gregson (Beatle) from the Aces team is there - maybe others. Check it out.

[SpiritFlyer 987]

Prepare3D downloading now. 3 hours to go.

[Orbx 123]

OK this will be my last post here on these forums for a while. This whole episode has left a bitter taste in my mouth and as a company we pride ourselves on our integrity, quality and reputation and care very little for speculation, accusations and in-fighting. Right now we are busy with a bunch of imminent new releases for FSX, a platform we love and admire and will continue to develop for over many years to come. FSX is now a stable and mature platform which is in its golden age, and as simmers you are perhaps enjoying some of the best addons ever released by many quality developers all around the world. At Orbx we are in awe over the addons like the PMDG NGX, and other airports and sceneries which many talented developers are now releasing. We are all simmers at Orbx and we purchase almost everything that other companies release, because we love to fly ourselves. Isn't that why we are here in the first place? We are fans of other developers just as much as you guys are. We cannot do it all ourselves, so it's good for everyone to have a choice when it comes to aircraft, enhancements and scenery. We are not about to abandon FSX or wholesale migrate to P3D. P3D is another viable alternative which by the way, allows us to legitimately aspire to selling our products to commercial customers, which is a good thing IMHO. The side benefit is that enthusiasts can also enjoy P3D for a reasonable cost as well. When our free PNW demo is released for it you can spend $10 on P3D and have a play for yourself. Easy decision really. As for Flight, I committed from the day of its announcement that we were first and foremost a Microsoft shop and will release products for it when it was released. Go and check our forums to confirm my thoughts at the time. Nothing has changed for us, we're awaiting its release and an SDK just like every other developer is, and I am sure than in time, there may be lots of addons for it. We cannot emphatically say here and now if/when we will release addons for Flight because there is just too many unknowns about the new sim, but as I said, in good time all will be revealed to the community and we can make logical business decision about what we develop and for which platforms we develop for. I hope the discussion here can return to some normality and that less conspiracy theories are bandied about.

[Comanche 417]

Im going to try this too. Hard to resist. If it runs more efficently then FSX, its a winner even if not all addons will work with it yet. I assume there is no issues in running Prepare3d and FSX on the same Hard drive? Rob

[SpiritFlyer 987]

I have been using Prepar3D for several months and, for the most part, my experience with it is pretty similar to that of FSX - performance, config files (file locations are all different, of course), (not sure about ATC/AI) and the rest - but just keep in mind that many FSX scenery and aircaft addons are designed specifically for FSX and won't work without either trivial (filename/folder changes) or possibly major modifications in order to use them with P3D. There is also the question of whether an FSX license-to-use is valid for P3D - that will have to be answered on a case by case basis. Possibly, some addons will cost more when used with P3D - not sure. I am hoping that the newest release - 1.2 - will have some needed GUI changes as well. Be sure to check out the prepar3d.com forums for yourself and you will see that there hasn't been a whole lost of action as of yet. Certainly, LM would welcome you enthusiasts and the momentum that you might bring along with you. A possible forum topic on the P3D site would list addons that need changes and, if someone has figured it out, just what the changes are. Another major topic might be performance comparisons from FSX to P3D. A hot button for me is to be able to use more cores in an efficient manner. I don't want to be forced to use multiple PCs in order to drive more monitors. What I do like is to be able to ask for a change and not hear "Fixed in next rev 3 years from now". I think Tim Gregson (Beatle) from the Aces team is there - maybe others. Check it out.

Thanks for the information. I am really looking forward to jumping in and getting involved. I have not found any community links there yet. Where should I look for them? Which reminds me, we should probably have a new Prepar3D section in AVSIM don't you guys think? Kind regards,

[frankla 44]

Jacoba, John spells out some observations, we can all see, and comes to a personal opinion - he shared.And it is a reasonable opinion - look at the screenshots - and you'll tend to agree. It is not an NDA issue; the pictures are available to everyone.He's posted twice now to explain this - and ask folks not the read more into his remarks. Then you say, "If so, it still does not erase the fact that what we know now (about Flight) and the obvious ruckus that has erupted in the past few weeks amongst the developers and or MS does not bode well."So I don't know what you mean by "what we know now" and all of that.We don't 'know' much at all - and John has twice tried to remove himself from the rumors. BTW frankla just forced the ambiguity to an ultimatum.And gave an opprunity for John to bring the point home...he's got no place in the rumor.

Perhaps the following statement comes out, to me, as too much of expression of fact than opinion. "John Venema : Flight is not what people are expecting, it won't compete with FSX at all, it's a completely different sim category. " To me absolute words such as "completely", "won't", "at all" and "is not" are not words one uses for opinions. I felt he threw his poison out there at Microsoft and Flight and then tried to protect himself by explaining it here as opinion. But maybe I am wrong. I hope I am and if I am I apologize.

[Mango 0]

You better take a break now frankla. Your posts are nothing more than annoying...

[SpiritFlyer 987]

Oh Frank, shut it down will you? You are digging yourself into a deeper and deeper hole. If you object to John Venema's statements, then take it somewhere, anywhere else, please. Most of us agree with him, and disagree with you. Why? ...because we have considerable knowledge, experience and expertise that lead us to the same conclusions he has. You had best cool your jets for your own sake. Knock it off and be quiet. Kind regards,