I think you are wrong here .. there is always a timeline. Any professionally run business operates with a timeline. I am not sure what example you are using stating that software developers dont use a timeline.

I know, that I am not wrong, since I am a Software Engineer. For business puzrposes you always need a timeline (no bank would be ready to give you credit otherwise), but in fact you don't know how long it takes to find a solution, or even if you find a solution till you have solved the problem. You can only guess how long it might take! But you always know that you are most probably wrong. Trivial problem can become MAJOR road blocks or a problem that looked pretty hard can be pretty simple!Or why do you think many programs are not released in time or are in total chaos? You plan with time reserves, but if these reserves are not sufficient there are very few things you can do. The management sometimes believes that more or other people will help, but this helps only in very few, special situations. You normally drop features or promise an upgrade at a later time.

Edited January 10, 201214 yr by Longranger

I think you are wrong here .. there is always a timeline. Any professionally run business operates with a timeline. I am not sure what example you are using stating that software developers dont use a timeline.

I think the point is that developement timelines aren't set in stone, but a lot of people have trouble understanding that and become upset when timelines are "missed".

Edited January 10, 201214 yr by Mountain Man

Eagle Dynamics has laid out a very vague timeline with it's DCS series, but still play their cards VERY close to the chest. I feel LR is doing the same in some ways. I just hope it isn't hype

Eagle Dynamics has laid out a very vague timeline with it's DCS series, but still play their cards VERY close to the chest. I feel LR is doing the same in some ways. I just hope it isn't hype

Sure eagle dynamics are a bit vague but let's not forget the difference. Dcs are vague about when they are releasing future products. No one is asking LR to tell us when xp11 is going to be available. Just when some of the features they said would be at release.

Good points. Trying not to over use the DCS example because there are obviously alot of differences between the two but I wanted to point out that they also released their beta's at full price if i remember right, and that was without the option of a demo. They evolve over time. I will agree that XPX is FAR from finished but I am going to withhold final judgement before i completely write it off. Thankfully i still have FSX and DCS sprinkled with XPX on top to keep me occupied.I have not read all the pre release jargon so if LR is quoted to have made a promise that is not included in the initial release, then shame on them :)

Edited January 10, 201214 yr by Amnwrx

Good points. Trying not to over use the DCS example because there are obviously alot of differences between the two but I wanted to point out that they also released their beta's at full price if i remember right, and that was without the option of a demo. They evolve over time. I will agree that XPX is FAR from finished but I am going to withhold final judgement before i completely write it off. Thankfully i still have FSX and DCS sprinkled with XPX on top to keep me occupied.I have not read all the pre release jargon so if LR is quoted to have made a promise that is not included in the initial release, then shame on them :)

No problem, I think the dcs comparison is fair as they also had an open beta, full price up front. The difference again was that eagle dynamics made it very clear that you were participating in an open beta, they gave full change logs for patches and in general ran what I considered to be a beta. LR on the other hand started to sell a product, let online stores sell it and never once said it was a beta in their marketing. Another sim coming out this weeks is rfactor 2, open beta, full price and you could not mistake it at all for being anything other than a beta because they tell you.

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/consumer.shtm[email protected][email protected]http://www.facebook.com/XPlaneOfficial

Laminar Research5001 Radcliffe RdColumbia SC 29206

1-913-269-0976

Now, if you and m_av are done complaining about timelines, beta status at time of sale, etc, etc, etc, maybe we can get the flow of the forums back to normal.

Just a thought.

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/consumer.shtm[email protected][email protected]http://www.facebook.com/XPlaneOfficial

Laminar Research5001 Radcliffe RdColumbia SC 29206

1-913-269-0976

Now, if you and m_av are done complaining about timelines, beta status at time of sale, etc, etc, etc, maybe we can get the flow of the forums back to normal.

Just a thought.

Is that a metaphor for xplane? Not sure what you are suggesting? if I send them a video of me bashing the disks I will get a refund until such time as I find the sim more usable?

Jason,you, me, and basically everyone else in these forums knows what that picture is for. Acting stupid doesn't do much good for your credibility (what's left of it).If you have a complaint, I've provided you several contact points for you and m_av to go to. Complaining in these forums shows me you're just looking for some kind of "respect" for "taking a noble stand against Laminar research for not providing timelines and releasing beta's for sale". I'm suddenly reminded of Superman fighting for truth, justice and the american way!If you want to complain, grow some balls and contact the Federal Trade Commission, or contact Austin by any of the contact points I posted.If you want to stand on Austin's shoulders by continually complaining in here and consider yourself tall, then by all means, go ahead. The more you do it, the worse you and m_av look.There are less than 6 of you constantly trying to disrupt the flow of the forums in here. I don't know about you, but I would find better ways to use my time.

Jason,you, me, and basically everyone else in these forums knows what that picture is for. Acting stupid doesn't do much good for your credibility (what's left of it).If you have a complaint, I've provided you several contact points for you and m_av to go to. Complaining in these forums shows me you're just looking for some kind of "respect" for "taking a noble stand against Laminar research for not providing timelines and releasing beta's for sale". I'm suddenly reminded of Superman fighting for truth, justice and the american way!If you want to complain, grow some balls and contact the Federal Trade Commission, or contact Austin by any of the contact points I posted.If you want to stand on Austin's shoulders by continually complaining in here and consider yourself tall, then by all means, go ahead. The more you do it, the worse you and m_av look.There are less than 6 of you constantly trying to disrupt the flow of the forums in here. I don't know about you, but I would find better ways to use my time.

Please, it's adding up the number of time you have called me stupid, I don't think there is much need for it. Your view is that anyone thinking they may have been duped by buying a beta and posting about it is a crusader for truth and justice? This once again shows how I don't believe you think about these things in the same way as most people. There may be only about 6 people having 'issues' but there are only about 9 people that ever write here.

Edited January 10, 201214 yr by JasonHarris

Jason,you, me, and basically everyone else in these forums knows what that picture is for. Acting stupid doesn't do much good for your credibility (what's left of it).If you have a complaint, I've provided you several contact points for you and m_av to go to. Complaining in these forums shows me you're just looking for some kind of "respect" for "taking a noble stand against Laminar research for not providing timelines and releasing beta's for sale". I'm suddenly reminded of Superman fighting for truth, justice and the american way!If you want to complain, grow some balls and contact the Federal Trade Commission, or contact Austin by any of the contact points I posted.If you want to stand on Austin's shoulders by continually complaining in here and consider yourself tall, then by all means, go ahead. The more you do it, the worse you and m_av look.There are less than 6 of you constantly trying to disrupt the flow of the forums in here. I don't know about you, but I would find better ways to use my time.

his form of humor .. now whos acting, to quote you "stupid"

I never said you were stupid. I said you were acting stupid. There's a difference.I never said people weren't getting duped or were getting duped. I said if you have a complaint, email LR about it. Contact the FTC about it. Posting about it in a forum is, imho, an exercise in futility and is just mud-slinging...UNLESS you're looking for people to fight the crusade with you (read - stroke your ego)

I never said you were stupid. I said you were acting stupid. There's a difference.I never said people weren't getting duped or were getting duped. I said if you have a complaint, email LR about it. Contact the FTC about it. Posting about it in a forum is, imho, an exercise in futility and is just mud-slinging...UNLESS you're looking for people to fight the crusade with you (read - stroke your ego)

I am in New Zealand, I wont get a refund, talking to Austin who would not reply would do nothing for me. What is it with everyone saying email the pres of the company, what do you honestly think that will do? Anyway, I am not looking for a refund and I never said I was but you have implied it a number of times. You can stop now as it is clear. I will tell you one thing. If they only listened to one person out of you and I then we would be left with our current complacency or something else. You dont seem to take a very strong stance on some things, like are people getting duped when clearly they are. You will not say one way or another. You won't say they are not getting duped, that much is clear. Sure, buddy up and keep it to yourself but too bad for you if someone else says it. Oh yeah, call me acting stupid once, call me acting stupid twice, call me acting stupid three times. Oh well, at least you didnt call me stupid.

Edited January 10, 201214 yr by JasonHarris

I have NEVER implied, insinuated or told you to get a refund. Not once. Not ever.I said if you have a complaint, go through the proper channels. I hope you don't make a habit of putting words in people mouths.I have emailed Austin a couple of times and gotten a response within 48 hours on all occasions. I don't really understand why you think he won't respond. He always does, as long as you address him respectfully as a person and not mouth off at him.Do I think people are getting duped? No. Free demo that says its a beta on the splashscreen. Fly the fully functioning, Seattle area limited demo as much as you want. Don't like it? Adios and no hard feelings.You're trying to make this into something it isn't.

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/consumer.shtm[email protected][email protected]http://www.facebook.com/XPlaneOfficial

Laminar Research5001 Radcliffe RdColumbia SC 29206

1-913-269-0976

Now, if you and m_av are done complaining about timelines, beta status at time of sale, etc, etc, etc, maybe we can get the flow of the forums back to normal.

Just a thought.

Haha, lol. That picture was great !!!