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RobbieHe

X-Plane vs. FSX

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If FSX was the more accurate candidate for real world flying, airplanes would be falling out the sky so much, no one would be allowed to fly them.
:( I suppose this is about X-Plane 10 where aircraft at this stage of the 'beta' or 'release candidate' are blown away by a breath of a deer or rollercoaster through the sky by the slightest turbulence?

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Nose down to recover is the first thing that should be done. A stall is a result of excessive AoA (beyond the critical AoA). That AoA needs to be reduced. Then smoothly apply power, and if a spin is happening, apply opposite rudder.
Sorry this is just not right for every aircraft or situation... For instance the stall recovery in a CRJ2 is to apply full power and fly out of the stall condition.Oops I should clarify... in some airlines procedures. It does seem counter intuitive to not apply nose down pressure I admit....

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This is a maximum load loop in the default (unmoded) Boeing 747 for X-plane 10.Entered the loop going 360 knots at 1000 feet, recovered at 600'.If you tried this in FSX you would not have the same results. The 747 would fall like a rock during the second half of the loop. That line would have gone almost straight down.

It is quite easy to get an airliner into a stall condition where it's no longer moving forward but rather falling vertically or even tail first despite the fact the aircraft is level.
In FSX this is true, In X-plane, this is not true. The plane will right itself, I suspect this is how it works in reality too.

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I'll just quote Morten, a few posts higher:

Those who claim to know how an airliner behaves in a deep stall most likely have no idea what they aretalking about unless they work in the inner circles of Boeing or the like.So how an airliner deep stalls is only of pure academic interest with regard to airliner simulation.(unless you have some bizarre interests)

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Here I made a video, this is with the default 747-400 that comes with X-plane and all the realism options set to on. As you can see, they are smooth loops to keep the G-forces low.http://youtu.be/x_3z1OlhYyM

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You have a LOT of time on your hands. Obssessed with making loops in a 747 AND making videos of it. I only have one complaint. THAT IS THE WORST MUSIC I HAVE EVER HEARD FOR A VIDEO! Gave me a migraine after the first 15 seconds!

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I guess that is what flight simulators are for, to do things that you can't do in real life. I once flew a Mustang under the Golden State Bridge, upside down. Can't do that in X-Plane. The bridge isn't there yet.I'm off now to fly through the St Louis arch. :(

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Sorry this is just not right for every aircraft or situation... For instance the stall recovery in a CRJ2 is to apply full power and fly out of the stall condition.Oops I should clarify... in some airlines procedures. It does seem counter intuitive to not apply nose down pressure I admit....
this is approach to stall recovery. the same thing for the 737.deep stall is a different thing.
This is a maximum load loop in the default (unmoded) Boeing 747 for X-plane 10.Entered the loop going 360 knots at 1000 feet, recovered at 600'.If you tried this in FSX you would not have the same results. The 747 would fall like a rock during the second half of the loop. That line would have gone almost straight down.In FSX this is true, In X-plane, this is not true. The plane will right itself, I suspect this is how it works in reality too.
last time I've tried stupid things in the FSX (fs9, fs2k2, fs2k, fs98...) was to land a full loaded 747 in RW20L in santos dummont.and I made it.so, default airplanes are not supoused to be realistic in all areas. they are more likely to be a small display of the real capabilty. also, goran is right. You have too much spare time to try, capture images and edit a video of a default airplane making loops in the simulador (and I second the music. geez)

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In FSX this is true, In X-plane, this is not true. The plane will right itself, I suspect this is how it works in reality too.
Remember the regional jet that crashed in upstate New York a few years back? Severe icing and pilot error was involved... and the aircraft pancaked into a home. That's reality. The aircraft will not "right itself".

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Remember the regional jet that crashed in upstate New York a few years back? Severe icing and pilot error was involved... and the aircraft pancaked into a home. That's reality. The aircraft will not "right itself".
Yes, pancaking. That's what it should be called. Still, as you said, this case involved severe icing; It makes sense that if the wings get covered with enough ice, they will start to stall in any condition. As it stands, I believe it is far too easy to pancake in FSX, and I suspect they do this intentionally to make you a better pilot.I found out last night you can loop the 747-400 in FSX, the same way one would in X-plane, but it only gives you the same results if you never let the stall indicator go off:

http://youtu.be/Jf8OoCpsitA

Once you start to stall, X-plane and FSX have wickedly different philosophies on what happens during that stall.Edit:This is what it looks like in X-plane 10, when I try (And I mean try really hard) to pancake the 747-400:

In FSX I would have probably started to fly backwards, until I pankcaked to my death.

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By contrast, every plane in FSX can do this pancake effect, even the Cessna 172:http://youtu.be/rkH0PeUSx4UYet, it is basically impossible to pancake anything in X-plane. Dose anyone know which one is more realistic? I bet an Aerobatics pilot would know.I think this is the number 1 biggest difference between X-plane and FSX. It drives me insane in FSX, and yet in X-plane I can't help but wonder if this lack of pancaking is a real problem?

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Here is my best effort to try and repeat the same death stall in X-plane:

The problem is that once one of the wings starts to stall the plane just flips to one side, if I correct I can sorta do this strange para-shoot maneuver (I guess we can call this Pancaking right?) that's basically like the death stall in FSX, but I can only do it for a little bit before it flips over or builds up enough airspeed to move straight and level again.

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Here is my best effort to try and repeat the same death stall in X-plane:The problem is that once one of the wings starts to stall the plane just flips to one side, if I correct I can sorta do this strange para-shoot maneuver (I guess we can call this Pancaking right?) that's basically like the death stall in FSX, but I can only do it for a little bit before it flips over or builds up enough airspeed to move straight and level again.
I'm guessing you don't fly rw aircraft. If the aircraft flips to one side, it's because airflow over that wing is slower than the other wing. This can be caused by something as small as moving the ailerons, slight rudder (which will yaw the aircraft and make the airflow over the wing you are yawing towards further disrupted) or even variances in the wind. When learning to fly, a student pilot is taught to NOT move the ailerons approaching or during a stall (using the yoke) but instead to use the rudder pedals to avoid the wing drop. It happens more often than you would think.

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are we discussing here about stalls and behavior of default airplanes, with real world airplanes, in icing condition, T tail aircraft, in a real Stall condition?just checking.

The problem is that once one of the wings starts to stall the plane just flips to one side
try to use your rudder to keep the aircraft straight line. that's what pilots do in real world.try also to reduce power to idle. climb to 1000' agl and then, try to stall.

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I seem to remember a major accident quite a number of years back now in UK involving a T tail passenger jet. It was climbing but the airspeed was too low due to icing I think it was. The aircaft literally fell out the sky tailfirst. I can't remember the details but the investigation results should be around somewhere. Something to do with the T tail configuration also I think.Pete

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I realize that the pancake can be done:

It's just that, compared to FSX, doing the pancake is really hard, that's why I posted the video where I tried to do the pancake, but failed. In FSX, you can do the pancake simply by pulling up just after take off. It's as easy as 1, 2, 3, PANCAKES!!!XPX is like, I see you trying to make pancakes, I see that FSX makes perfict pancakes. This is not me, I am X -plane 10, you need to work for your pancakes....and I'm all like, I don't even like pancakes.

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It's just that, compared to FSX, doing the pancake is really hard, that's why I posted the video where I tried to do the pancake, but failed. In FSX, you can do the pancake simply by pulling up just after take off. It's as easy as 1, 2, 3, PANCAKES!!!
:( Come on, you are dreaming. You get exactly the same result in FSX if you try this. I just wrecked a c172, c182 RG and a costly Beech Baron 58 by testing this in FSX !!

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I think XPX is realistic in regards to stall handling. A wing stalls when smooth airflow over the wing is disrupted. Wings can be a partial stall or a full stall. The left wind and the right wing can be stalled unequally. In other words, 1 wing can be more stalled than the other, and when that happens, the wing that is more stalled will drop. That is realistic.

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I like Stall in X-Plane better than FSX. Feels more fluid, more realistic in my opinion. I just wish it was less forgiving. At least with the default aircrafts, I find myself taking off, nose 40 degrees up, and I don't fall like a rock from the sky, but I get in a stall where I can easily recover before reaching the runway. Even if somebody says that's realistic, I wish Simulators were less forgiving, that would teach students to always respect the flight envelope, or you might die. Pretty sure it' must be programmed to be harder to recover from an upset situation on a Level D Sim than it is in real life. Just my opinion

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Just got back from stall testing the DC-3 in yet another simulator, I'm not gonna post a video as I think I've done enough of that to make my point.In IL-2 Sturmovik I get results that are about half way between FSX and X-plane 10, closer to X-plane I would say as the plane dose try and correct itself so that it is always facing the direction it is flying/falling.

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Since there are quite a variety of GA aircraft for "both" sims....................I've experienced some rather realistic stall events in both sims. I've done plenty of real life stalls and spins, in addition to seeing many stall/spins from a ground view with R/C. IMO............it's a wash. I'm not concerned with authenticating a 747 stall (all types), nor feel that it's worth attempting to model.........to the full extent.

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If you wish to experience rather nasty icing stall effects simply load up a location with snotty real world weather-try CYBD or PANT....scenic stuff there...and try a climb into IMC. See if you can recover before crashing as the ice starts building up.Enjoy!

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I think I'm about to say FSX is better then X-plane, it somehow magicly proves to me that it is not better then x-plane by driving me insane with one of it's meny problems, usally ending in my computer crashing or my plane crashing and me swareing at my computer like it's possesed by demons.
I never have crashes or problems with my current up to date hardware in FSX.I just let my configuration file (fsx.cfg) get tuned by 'Bojote's FSX configurator' and FSX now runs like a runaway train.

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