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SpiritFlyer

What about product protection?

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Hey Guys,Can't those who have not installed their ORBX software legitimately (pirates) receive software product support in this section without being required to produce any sort of evidence of purchasing it? ORBX support of their products at their own website is state of the industry, but the only ones who can ask for and recieve direct help are those who can produce a purchase order number. That seems only right and fair to me, so won't this forum just circumvent that procedure? Isn't that an unintended consequence? Please pardon me if I am overestimating the sincerity of the ORBX stance because they have actually officially, or unofficially agreed to this forum. I'm just asking, as ORBX by its own estimate, is entirely self sufficient and self sustained and unlikely to welcome outside support, interference or help from anyone, whether well intended or not.Kind regards,

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Hi Stephen,I just asked exactly the same question at the ORBX forums an hour ago but the post has been removed.CheersJack

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Hi guys. Stephen, you probably know me well from FTX site. Your question is fair and may I offer a comment. I AM a full fledged owner of every piece of Orbx software. For reasons not explained to me I have been restricted and may not use their support forums anymore. With this "unoffical" approach to support, I can receive support for purchased products that has been denied on the official support site. I imagine that I am not the only one in this predicament. I have attempted to regain support from Orbx, and they have yet to respond to me. Maybe if i send over a few cases of good Canadian local ales they might see it to let me back into their fold. I would prefer to not have to respond to this type of dicussion anymore but I feel compelled to comment to advise that it is important not to tar forum users as pirates just because they are using another forum to talk about products.You may notice that there are many unofficial support forums for a wide variety of products available for users to chat about their issues, concerns and ideas. Orbx is not captain of the world.I welcome any place that will support an ability to get help with problems, issues or to ask general questions about certain aspects of their payware products. Sincerely Bryan

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Hi guys. Stephen, you probably know me well from FTX site. Your question is fair and may I offer a comment. I AM a full fledged owner of every piece of Orbx software. For reasons not explained to me I have been restricted and may not use their support forums anymore. With this "unoffical" approach to support, I can receive support for purchased products that has been denied on the official support site. I imagine that I am not the only one in this predicament. I have attempted to regain support from Orbx, and they have yet to respond to me. Maybe if i send over a few cases of good Canadian local ales they might see it to let me back into their fold. I would prefer to not have to respond to this type of dicussion anymore but I feel compelled to comment to advise that it is important not to tar forum users as pirates just because they are using another forum to talk about products.You may notice that there are many unofficial support forums for a wide variety of products available for users to chat about their issues, concerns and ideas. Orbx is not captain of the world.I welcome any place that will support an ability to get help with problems, issues or to ask general questions about certain aspects of their payware products.Sincerely Bryan
Hi Bryan,Those are excellent and perhaps even compelling counter points. Even though I have been recently told that my comments or opinions about ORBX or its products are entirely unappreciated and unwelcome and even that it is hoped that I never buy another ORBX product ever again, I try not to bear a grudge. After having bought 37 of their products I admit, that is sometimes hard to do, but even still, I don't like to see any company lose sales because their programs are stolen by pirates which takes food right out of deserving developers mouths. ORBX developers or those from any 3PD deserve much better than that. Sure, it is fair that all legitimate customers are somehow supported when exiled. I wish I had some suggestions how that might be accomplished, but I don't.It's just seems to me that some principles are more important than personal considerations. After sale software support only for those that are entitled to it is one of them. Quite the ethical dilemma isn't it? In any case, I have written all I intend to on this subject because I don't need another headache coming my way from anyone. I am sure AVSIM will do what is best for the greatest number of their members, as they usually think before they act, something I need to do more of for my own protection and quiet enjoyment of my hobby. After all, this whole flight simulation thing is not supposed to be serious and a stress multiplier, but an enjoyable escape from life's more important and worthwhile pursuits. It is good to see you again Bryan. Take care!Kind regards,Hi Jack,It is good to see you again too. I guess great minds think alike as we seem to have the same questons triggered by this forum. Can't imagine why your post would have been deleted, but then again I have given up trying to understand such things. I am glad to see you still enjoying your hobby. You had taken a rather lengthy break didn't you? Maybe I ought to do the same. Perhaps take up knitting, or playing Monopoly by myself... :(

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http://www.orbxsystems.com/forum/topic/605-orbx-forum-terms-of-use/Orbx Forum Terms of Use: 16 ) We also reserve the right to ban anyone who wilfully violates the forum rules, as access to our support forums are a privilege and not a right. A banned customer is still entitled to support from the support system (unless in the case of piracy - see below).------20 ) Banned users can still receive legitimate support by contacting admin@orbxsystems.com (unless in the case of piracy - see below).------

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Hi Stephen,no, I didn't take a break at all, just been very quiet on the forums is all. I've always been more of a reader than a poster, unless I felt the need to comment on something.My job does take me away for extended periods though (I'm an export sales manager often going on 2-3 week trips to Asia) and although I try to keep up with the forums, I don't get to fly as often as I'd like! When I've been home over the past couple of months, I've been following Dan's (Turbine777) painting tutorials and trying to get my head around doing some repaints.It also took me a while to get my FSX installation running smoothly. You may recall last year I was having similar problems as yourself with the dreaded g3d.dll crashes, which thankfully seem to be a thing of the past now thanks to Pete. I also finally got my rig overclocked to my satisfaction and running very smoothly now.Hope you're doing well and will keep on simming, your input is very valuable to the community and it would be a shame to lose it!CheersJack

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Hi guys. Stephen, you probably know me well from FTX site. Your question is fair and may I offer a comment. I AM a full fledged owner of every piece of Orbx software. For reasons not explained to me I have been restricted and may not use their support forums anymore. With this "unoffical" approach to support, I can receive support for purchased products that has been denied on the official support site. I imagine that I am not the only one in this predicament. I have attempted to regain support from Orbx, and they have yet to respond to me. Maybe if i send over a few cases of good Canadian local ales they might see it to let me back into their fold. I would prefer to not have to respond to this type of dicussion anymore but I feel compelled to comment to advise that it is important not to tar forum users as pirates just because they are using another forum to talk about products.You may notice that there are many unofficial support forums for a wide variety of products available for users to chat about their issues, concerns and ideas. Orbx is not captain of the world.I welcome any place that will support an ability to get help with problems, issues or to ask general questions about certain aspects of their payware products.Sincerely Bryan
Ditto. All for questions and commenting on the Boxing Week Xmas sale fiasco.

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You know something is wrong when a guy like Stephen gets banned from the forums. What is with those ORBX guys ?

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Hi Bryan,Those are excellent and perhaps even compelling counter points. Even though I have been recently told that my comments or opinions about ORBX or its products are entirely unappreciated and unwelcome and even that it is hoped that I never buy another ORBX product ever again, I try not to bear a grudge. After having bought 37 of their products I admit, that is sometimes hard to do, but even still, I don't like to see any company lose sales because their programs are stolen by pirates which takes food right out of deserving developers mouths. ORBX developers or those from any 3PD deserve much better than that. Sure, it is fair that all legitimate customers are somehow supported when exiled. I wish I had some suggestions how that might be accomplished, but I don't.It's just seems to me that some principles are more important than personal considerations. After sale software support only for those that are entitled to it is one of them. Quite the ethical dilemma isn't it? In any case, I have written all I intend to on this subject because I don't need another headache coming my way from anyone. I am sure AVSIM will do what is best for the greatest number of their members, as they usually think before they act, something I need to do more of for my own protection and quiet enjoyment of my hobby. After all, this whole flight simulation thing is not supposed to be serious and a stress multiplier, but an enjoyable escape from life's more important and worthwhile pursuits. It is good to see you again Bryan. Take care!Kind regards,Hi Jack,It is good to see you again too. I guess great minds think alike as we seem to have the same questons triggered by this forum. Can't imagine why your post would have been deleted, but then again I have given up trying to understand such things. I am glad to see you still enjoying your hobby. You had taken a rather lengthy break didn't you? Maybe I ought to do the same. Perhaps take up knitting, or playing Monopoly by myself... :(
Holy cow! This is almost unbelievable.SAD. VERY SAD!

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You know something is wrong when a guy like Stephen gets banned from the forums. What is with those ORBX guys ?
But he isn't. http://www.orbxsystems.com/forum/user/861-spirit-flyer/ However, I think something has changed more or less slightly over there, I agree. Hopefully it turns out as a temporary phenomenon. :(
20 ) Banned users can still receive legitimate support by contacting admin@orbxsystems.com (unless in the case of piracy - see below).
I didn't know that one. Hopefully it helps some folks receiving support for their purchases.

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I am sure AVSIM will do what is best for the greatest number of their members, as they usually think before they act, something I need to do more of for my own protection and quiet enjoyment of my hobby.
Stephen, I saw some of these posts winging around last night, but I was too done in to post anything that would have made sense. I am not sure I have anything that will make much sense now, but I will give it a go...I appreciate your vote of confidence in AVSIM, and I am glad to hear that this forum will be useful to the ORBX product owners and those who are seeking user information about those products. The obvious question is; why would we set up an "unofficial" anything here in the AVSIM forums? Our position, which has evolved over the last 15 years, is that no matter the topic, product, service, or event related to our hobby, it deserves support from AVSIM. We learned long ago that so called "community" sites were not as equal as others when it came to supporting the "community". We do; at least to the extent that we are able to. We feel an obligation to attempt support in anyway we can. I say "attempt" because we do not always succeed.A long time ago, there was a vendor of product in our community who did not provide a support forum, did not respond to emails asking for support or in any recognizable way provide help to the customers who owned his product. After reading the AVSIM Forums at the time, we realized that we can open an "unofficial" forum for anything, and at least provide the member here a place to gather and share information, problems, tips and tricks to help in the use of whatever product. As you see, there are dozens of forums here that fall into the "unofficial" category, and most are used on daily basis.However, we have also seen these "unofficial" forums turn into lynch mobs. That is not why they were created. The unofficial forum is created to provide another "channel" of communication amongst members with a specific product of interest. They are not intended to provide an excuse for a "riot" so to speak. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that this forum will go that direction, but I am pointing out the potential does always exist.Enough dribble from me...

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Thanks, Tom, for highlighting the reason that AVSIM is always my first FS-related stop every day.

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You know something is wrong when a guy like Stephen gets banned from the forums. What is with those ORBX guys ?
Thankfully I was never banned, as I want to keep my products updated with SP, version and library changes. I was just told I was unwelcome, unwanted and unappreciated. Nothwithstanding, I hold no ill will to anyone at ORBX, especially it's developers, who are a class act second to none. Who is better than Holger, Jarred, Heiko, Andreas, Bill, Russ and others anywhere, in this, or any other related industry? I also have great respect for Wolter and a long standing mutual friendship with Iain. I hope they all fair well.This forum needs to become positive and not just a place to vent anger. Let's try to help and support each other in the enjoyment of the ORBX products we have so much time, talent and treasure invested in. There is considerable skill and experience among us here, so lets put them to work for our common good. If others join in, and I am sure they will, we will add to the talent pool which should go a long way to solving our own ORBX software problems. Perhaps none of us are experts, but we can give each concern care and attention, and with a little bit of luck make a difference. What more could we ask for?This really is the last word I will state about any of this conflict, as it is not worthwhile for anyone, here, or there to indulge further.Kind regards,Edit: Tom, as I was writing this, you were answering in the above post. I agree wholeheartedly with what you wrote and pledge I will do everything in my power (which isn't much) to be part of a solution and not part of the problem. Thank you for your support of this stranded community.

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Excellent folks, appreciated. I note that one issue I raised has been ported over to FTX and they acknowledged there was a problem and that they would look to a fix in the next patch. So this can work.respectfully Bryan.

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I don't think this forum needs any special subforums. One forum should do the trick, right? What do you think?

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I don't think this forum needs any special subforums. One forum should do the trick, right? What do you think?
I don't know if this question was a reaction to something that's been posted or a question in general :( but if it was the latter: I also don't think subforums are needed. Let's keep it simple! :(

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I don't know if this question was a reaction to something that's been posted or a question in general :( but if it was the latter: I also don't think subforums are needed. Let's keep it simple! :(
You are right, it is the latter. I just wanted to see what folks had to say.

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You are right, it is the latter. I just wanted to see what folks had to say.
Tom,Do you assign a Moderator to all these "unofficial" forums? I think that ORBX has a major responsibility to it's customers. They MUST provide support. I'm confident that they will. That leaves just a few bad apples who might want to just make a career out of sullying a great developer's reputation.Someone has to ensure that things are kept in order. Any takers? :(

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Tom,Do you assign a Moderator to all these "unofficial" forums? I think that ORBX has a major responsibility to it's customers. They MUST provide support. I'm confident that they will. That leaves just a few bad apples who might want to just make a career out of sullying a great developer's reputation.Someone has to ensure that things are kept in order. Any takers? :(
Jose, I am not quite sure what you are suggesting... Get one of the ORBX guys to moderate or have a member moderate? Yes, we encourage individual forums mods when we have a volunteer and is someone knowledgeable with both the product and our terms of service.

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Stephan for Moderator.. any seconds for thatO and lets not forhet N4Gix.. he is already moderator here at AVSIM and I have found him to be very good moderator.

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Jose, I am not quite sure what you are suggesting... Get one of the ORBX guys to moderate or have a member moderate? Yes, we encourage individual forums mods when we have a volunteer and is someone knowledgeable with both the product and our terms of service.
I'll nominate Stephen. If he dosn't want to do it. I'll be happy to contribute. :(

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I'll nominate Stephen. If he dosn't want to do it. I'll be happy to contribute. :(
He must have read your mind... He volunteered!!! :(

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Dammit! Stephen got the job before I could get my objection in!Well done Stephen, at least it'll keep you off the streets. :smile:My bottle of wine says: We can help people with Orbx problems.....but we can smell a pirate from 500 paces!

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I welcome this subforum as I appreciate having all my stuff in one place, so to speak. I also can't logon to the ORBX forum, as their spam filter has my IP range registered as something bad. I'm on a satellite internet service provider, so unfortunately I have to make do with whatever I am assigned. I have purchased quite a few ORBX products and while I have never needed support with any of them, I look forward to seeing what others have to post about them. These forums are always the greatest for hints, tips and tricks!

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Dammit! Stephen got the job before I could get my objection in!Well done Stephen, at least it'll keep you off the streets. :smile:My bottle of wine says: We can help people with Orbx problems.....but we can smell a pirate from 500 paces!
Hey Ron, my flying buddy, If it gets too rough in here, I will just jump in TS with you and fly away! I hope to be doing more of than anyway!Kind regards,

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