I did, and I agree with the OP and the linked post.

I'll repeat my reply to 'cmdrnmartin':People wonder why FSX users take issue with X-Plane... I stated a few simple reasons why. What was the purpose of your post again?? To argue against the reasons why?? To invalidate the reasons why? Seriously... I see no point to your post other than to attempt to argue something that's not meant to be an argument.It's wrong for you to be so dismissive.

It's hilarious to see you post that reply and completly miss the intent, I bolded the part of your statement where the irony flies right over your head.

Quick comment..... Most FSX airports do have buildings in the correct places. Data is from Jeppeson airport charts. The base product may be old, but the extensive selection of addons are very new.

It's less the placement of those buildings, and more the accuracy of them. Because the terminals pull from an object database of default/generic textures and shapes, many of the terminals don't look right. Compare and contrast for example, CYOW. The default buildings are flat wrong. You can get freeware that resembles the real thing more closely. But you're still replacing buildings.I consider Xplane and FSX to be on par when it comes to airport buildings, FSX has buildings yes, but you have to replace them with 3rd Parth anyway. Xplane just doesn't bother rendering incorrect buildings, so you have to go get 3rd party as well. In terms of airfield detail, Xplane blows FSX out of the water, especially with regards to lighting.

Today, X-plane v10 DOES NOT HAVE A SINGLE BUILDING THAT IS IN THE CORRECT LOCATION AND LOOKS ANYTHING LIKE THE REAL WORLD BUILDING, except perhaps for the few landmarks like the Seattle Needle, Eifel Tower, etc.Not intentionally ! NOT ONE !I do not normally like to compare FSX, which is some half a dozen years old vs X-plane v10, barely two months old, more a premature baby than anything else !

Everytime I see someone type a string of words in ALLCAPS I assume they have nothing important to say, they just want to be heard.

Beam me UP Scottie. No diplomacy found here.

<sigh!>OK, let me be more direct.What I appreciated in Guy's post - the one I linked to - was the suggestion that both the X-Plane and FSX communities had something to offer each other... that the demands of FSX users for "a more 'polished' virtual world" was having "a hugely beneficial effect" on X-Plane... that developers like PMDG might bring to the table a different and beneficial approach... that "[w]e need FSX users to bring a new point of view, or a new sense of priorities, to make XP10, XP11, XP12 even better than they could be without them." (emphasis mine).I thought that idea - that the X-Plane community might be enriched by an influx of FSX "immigrants," and that asking for the enhancement of certain features, like scenery, was not in itself a failure to appreciate X-Plane... I thought that that was a welcome contrast to the more common dialogue that unfolds along the lines of,..."X-Plane s*cks!" "X-Plane don't have no bulidings!""You're an FSX ######!""We don't need you here! Go back to FSX!"And so on.So what does my post lead to? A thread full of replies that say, essentially..."X-Plane s*cks!" "X-Plane don't have no bulidings!""You're an FSX ######!""We don't need you here! Go back to FSX!"Did anybody bother to read Guy's post? Think about it? Understand it? Maybe change behavior because of it?No, I guess not.OK, enough. Asked and answered.I'll step out of this now and leave you guys to the food fight.

As no one of the "old" x-plane users will write a book called "The X-Plane Guide: The sim's Culture, the best Plugins, nicest sceneries and must have aircraft" anytime soon, I wonder: How can "we" really be of help?

Actually, something like that would be a good thing for Laminar - or some third party on behalf of Laminar - to produce. A simple corporate communications strategy - if users of a competing product are showing interest in yours, but need some orientation, provide it, and convert them into informed users who understand your territory. Maybe somebody will take it on.

Actually, something like that would be a good thing for Laminar - or some third party on behalf of Laminar - to produce. A simple corporate communications strategy - if users of a competing product are showing interest in yours, but need some orientation, provide it, and convert them into informed users who understand your territory. Maybe somebody will take it on.

I pretty much thought that was the whole point of having an active vibrant XP forum right here :Thinking:Sadly the SNR is drowning out the majority of informers and informees.(SNR=Signal-to-Noise-Ratio)

I consider Xplane and FSX to be on par when it comes to airport buildings,

I find this to be the strangest quote in the thread so far, by a mile but I guess it is one point of view if you dont care at all about populated airports. Yes, once again this thread has gone sour because some people feel it is fsx vs xplane. The OP's point was missed by some. It is not about saying fsx has one feature followed by xplane rules it has something else. It's about rounding the product out to be something that could appeal to more of a mass market. For it to do that it has to start to appeal to the mass market more, that means taking on board what is important to that market. That market is currenty fsx, it's users and what they are used to seeing - e.g. airports with buildings. For eighty bucks they should try and pursue licensing data for airports - as an example. xplane costs a lot of money when you can see that they are trying to leverage off lots of free stuff to develop the sim.

Edited January 26, 201214 yr by JasonHarris

It's all about expectations.Either the negative comments resonate more than positive ones, or here at AVSIM and at numerous other flight simulation sites I frequent there are quite a few more "uugh's" being posted than praises. I can only attribute this to expectations.Your average customer is going to see the unexpected shortcomings in X-Plane 10 such as missing seasonal and regional textures, barren airports, crazy roads and bridges, and fall back to a simulator which doesn't have these problems. The likelihood that the potential customer will return 1,2,6,12 months later to see if things are fixed or finished is quite slim. The likelihood that the potential customer will share his negative opinions with others is quite good.Old hats with the X-Plane series know what to expect and are better "prepared" to roll with how Laminar chooses to release their software, but they are so small in number that they just about keep the food on the table of the X-Plane developers while keeping Austin Meyer's Cirrus SR-22 in the air.Brand new customers are the customers which have the potential to propel X-Plane out of the considerable shadow that the various active versions of MSFS continue to cast. Brand new customers can provide the traction needed for X-Plane to attract new 3rd party payware developers. Brand new customers can provide income to perhaps hire on the ever-so-needed additional talent to properly finish the software. (There's only so many hours in a day a single developer can dedicate to work - XP10 needs 36-hour days right now)Unfortunately, it's the brand new customers who see the current state of the simulator demo and report back that it is a buggy, beta, unfinished mess. It's the brand new customers who made their purchases only to find out that the product is barely in a beta state, never mind production state, and report back to the masses. It's the new transition customers coming from another simulator who find a massive disparity in the content and condition of the simulator, and report back to an eager audience that for all its improvements, XP10 would be a step backwards, not forwards.There's no doubt that X-Plane is a serious simulator for serious people, and it has serious benefits which some can and will be able to take advantage of. It's built for an audience which already likes and enjoys it. It's seeking an audience which has different tastes and desires, but has not adapted yet and shows no signs of doing so, despite what guymp seems to say in his post which is quoted in the original post.The "old way" (aka: current way) of doing things at Laminar Research will be hard pressed to win over new customers, and while I'm sure there has been an uptick in sales of XP10 by some curious armchair pilots as a result of MS Flight, I can't help but think that an disproportionately large number of new X-Planers feel that they have wasted their $80 and resent being told to sit down, shut up, wait for your updates, this is how its done and don't rock the boat.

I pretty much thought that was the whole point of having an active vibrant XP forum right here :Thinking:Sadly the SNR is drowning out the majority of informers and informees.(SNR=Signal-to-Noise-Ratio)

True, but it'd be even more effective (there'd be less noise, therefore more signal) if Laminar or a friend of Laminar was to produce something in a more controlled channel (maybe the X-Plane wiki?) that served very specfically as a guide to X-Plane for new arrivals from the FSX world. I'm thinking of something similar to what Adobe does for new versions of Photoshop - a quick overview of what's changed, targeted at users of previous versions - but in this case addressing users of a competitive product.My guess is they don't have the time or resources to take this on - but if they did it might help tamp down some of the confusion and reset expectations (to greggerm's point about expectations being the real issue here).The forum is great but clearly it's too chaotic to serve such a specific purpose.

My guess is they don't have the time or resources to take this on - but if they did it might help tamp down some of the confusion and reset expectations (to greggerm's point about expectations being the real issue here).

Based on the products they are selling on their website http://www.laminarresearch.com/ I would agree they dont have the time to update web pages.

True, but it'd be even more effective (there'd be less noise, therefore more signal) if Laminar or a friend of Laminar was to produce something in a more controlled channel (maybe the X-Plane wiki?) that served very specfically as a guide to X-Plane for new arrivals from the FSX world.

You might be surprised but aerosoft is doing exactly this in their german forum.