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port over to P3D, why is ORBX charging so much per addon.If I may quote Umberto:"The good news is: we are not requiring an additional license for Prepar3D, if you already own a valid KLAX Serial Number from your past FSX purchase, you can use it to activate the Prepar3D version.If you run both FSX and Prepar3D on the same machine, and your KLAX was already activated under FSX, there will be no need to do anything: the Prepar3D version of the scenery will work as a fully registered version"Something is not right with there reasons for charging. trying to make a fast buck ? heaven help me should I post this in the Orbx forum.

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I think it is *complete* nonsense that they would try to suck as much cash as possible. There products are nice, but I think that they are a ripoff.Totally absurd that they want to charge for a very simple port.

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I agree Ben, if it is just a case of re directing the install routine. But you cannot discuss it with them without being sentenced to 40 lashes. With the exchange rate as it is, it would sting me $8 a pop. I am not a tight arse, but draw the line at being fleeced for that extra amount of money. So my Orbx addons will be staying within FSX, but at no loss to them, just me.I don't trust the Aussie flightsim store either (which belongs to orbx) after ripping me off about a year ago when I purchased Fs Commander, but that's another story.

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heaven help me should I post this in the Orbx forum.
Yes, dont do it. The post will be locked or deleted faster than you can blink, plus you'll get banned. To your post, I agree. Aerosoft is also offering P3D support for some of their addons at no additional cost. If I ever get P3D there's no way i'd pay that much for another license. I would honestly rather do without or find a way to make it work on my own.

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To your post, I agree. Aerosoft is also offering P3D support for some of their addons at no additional cost. If I ever get P3D there's no way i'd pay that much for another license. I would honestly rather do without or find a way to make it work on my own.
John Nicol is already hinting that P3D is moving into a commercial development. I think it is already "dead" in terms of future compatibility and support.

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Yes, dont do it. The post will be locked or deleted faster than you can blink, plus you'll get banned.To your post, I agree. Aerosoft is also offering P3D support for some of their addons at no additional cost. If I ever get P3D there's no way i'd pay that much for another license. I would honestly rather do without or find a way to make it work on my own.
Exactly Jim. I am thinking the same.

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John Nicol is already hinting that P3D is moving into a commercial development. I think it is already "dead" in terms of future compatibility and support.
Really? What did he say?

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Really? What did he say?
From the Prepar3d forum:"Again, Prepar3D is not intended to be a replacement for FSX and as such the price point reflects the market that it is intended for. I realize that the genesis of the source code is the same and hence the confusion surrounding the product space. Hopefully we can continue to clarify that as we progress." - John Nicol

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Thank you Ben. I am not too sure what he means, as it could be taken a few different ways. Maybe that was his intent, can't tell.Kind regards,

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Aerosoft also offers free P3D installers for their later products. However, lets play fair, the Orbx folks explained some technical background which lead them to invest extra hours on already finished scenery to e. g. get PeopleFlow running.I'm definitely not a fan of the extra payment though. Since I don't use Lockheed's sim, I'm not that affected but can understand and support your thinking.

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John was actually just doing a bit of CYA with that post, making it crystal clear that if the person he was replying to was intending to use Prepar3D for "entertainment" then...Too many of L-M's commercial customers have mega-bucks invested already in the current dot version. They will add new capabilities to Prepar3D, but they won't be breaking current compatibility any time soon, if ever.

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I think you should have read this first. http://forum.avsim.n...irst-forum-%E2% mega_shok.gif%9Cbanned%E2% mega_shok.gif%9D-orbx/If you post about it you will get banned and post deleted.You simple cannot, no matter how nice you word it question anything these days over there. Even if your a very good customer, you become and I quote." If we lost every single one of those whiners as a customer it would make our lives and jobs easier "That's what I became :( :( :Shocked:Orbx in P3D does nothing more than read the files from your fsx install, a little code and they want a flat fee of £5 per product even the one that cost £10 to buy in the first place. So £5x how many you have is what it will cost you to move Orbx over to P3D.I could not agree with your comments anymore.Even the mod here is, Stephen is banned. There was a forum over there that was brilliant for PC stuff and Stephen was one if not the top man and it was great for help with all things FSX but O no that forum got deleted and Stephen for who knows why got BANNED, lol.

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Thank you Ben. I am not too sure what he means, as it could be taken a few different ways. Maybe that was his intent, can't tell.Kind regards,
This quote from Nicol is more clear:"Bottom line, don't use it as a replacement for a game, it needs to be used for non-entertainment purposes. That is all I will say on the matter. I personally cannot see any other interpretations, so do not know what else to say"And:"Just a point that Prepar3D is a simulation framework that is for the development of simulation applications."Can't get any clearer then that. I already had my doubt about P3D but after reading this I decided to forget about it and focus on... MS Flight! :wink:Apart from the fact that having to pay for Orbx licences for P3d isn't exactly what I'd call 'nice', I think it's also dangerous because there is a BIG change all the money spend on P3D will be going down the drain in the future... I wonder what kind of posts you'll get on the Orbx forum then...
Too many of L-M's commercial customers have mega-bucks invested already in the current dot version. They will add new capabilities to Prepar3D, but they won't be breaking current compatibility any time soon, if ever.
Hm, I remember reading that compatibility with current addons isn't something that will LM hold back in improving P3D...! Don't forget that a lot of current addons are consumer addons and not commercial addons. Don't be surprised if a specific plane that works now in P3D won't work in the next version. Another reason to take care and to not spend too much money on P3D imho. (Pity I can't find the post about this right now...)

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I think you should have read this first. http://forum.avsim.n...irst-forum-%E2% mega_shok.gif%9Cbanned%E2% mega_shok.gif%9D-orbx/If you post about it you will get banned and post deleted.You simple cannot, no matter how nice you word it question anything these days over there. Even if your a very good customer, you become and I quote." If we lost every single one of those whiners as a customer it would make our lives and jobs easier "That's what I became :( :( :Shocked:Orbx in P3D does nothing more than read the files from your fsx install, a little code and they want a flat fee of £5 per product even the one that cost £10 to buy in the first place. So 5x how many you have is what it will cost you to move Orbx over to P3D.I could not agree with your comments anymore.Even the mod here is, Stephen is banned. There was a forum over there that was brilliant for PC stuff and Stephen was one if not the top man and it was great for help with all things FSX but O no that forum got deleted and Stephen for who knows why got BANNED, lol.
Yes David, I read from front to back, and, well not exactly thigh slapping is it. How they have treated most of there loyal customers borders on insanity. In my opinoin, they have disconnected themselves from there customers, and only nurture those who dare not challenge there ethics. Which is sad, as we are talking about a FS addon provider, not a large corporationHowever, it is not Orbx head office (trying to avoid names here) that has made Orbx one of the best addon developers in our flying worll, it is the talent of the scenery creators, and most importantly, the customers. Without both, what do you have ? They do rely on the quality of there products to uphold the Orbx reputation, which in itself is fine, but where do you draw the line between reputation for great products, and customer support, or for a better word, involvment.I am flying over the Denmark Strait typing this,thinking do I need Orbx more than they need me ? No, I do not need them, I can survive without ever purchasing anymore of there products whilst the current situation remains.As for Stephen getting the spanish archer, well that is our gain, and there loss.

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Yes David, I read from front to back, and, well not exactly thigh slapping is it. How they have treated most of there loyal customers borders on insanity. In my opinoin, they have disconnected themselves from there customers, and only nurture those who dare not challenge there ethics. Which is sad, as we are talking about a FS addon provider, not a large corporation
The fact is that FS seems to attract a lot of wimps who will readily put up with abuse from developers - most forums are full of swooning idiots and sycophants who just want to feel part of something and will rush to a developers defence as if it was a family member when in reality they are just a customer and mean nothing to the developer at all. There are two threads over there at the moment - one person came out and said that he thought one of the recently updated products was disappointing and within 24 hours another thread was born which mirrors it almost exactly with the same old people saying just the opposite and how great they think it is when I bet some of them don't even have the product. It's just silly. I have spent a lot of money over there in the last couple of years and am really looking forward to when they reach California and then hopefully Arizona and New Mexico etc - I can honestly think of nothing better but I do wonder if Orbx will be around for long enough to do it as there just seems to be a sense of panic about the place. Products are being rushed out that arent ready and even the sycophants will get tired of that eventually. Hopefully there will be a management takeover and it will be run by passionate simmers who want to produce the best 'gimmick free' product rather than those just looking to make as much money as they can before the bubble bursts.

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Hi,People, you are taking my words and mis-interpreting them (again). :sad:Lockheed Martin will be maintaining compatibility for as long as we can. There are no plans to break compatibility, so don't know where this is coming from. There is a statement above that indicates that I am hinting that we will move into commercial development. I absolutely have no clue what this means. The product is already available for commercial use and there are no "hints". We continue to do what we are doing and there are no post-apocalyptic plans to deviate from the course we have set. A post appeared on our site indicating that the user was or intends to use the product as a one for one replacement of FSX and it looked like it was being used as a game. This is an inappropriate use of Prepar3D. Also, Prepar3D is a simulation framework that can be used to build simulators and synthetic environments. The environment will not have game-like functionality. That is part of the product description and has been on our website since day one. The clarification I was talking about, which again seems to be highlighting that I am speaking with two tongues, is the fact that I hope to continue educating the user base that Prepar3D is not a game. My native language is New Zealand English. I realize that there are a lot of non-native New Zealand English speakers in the forums (what is that all about?) so I realize that it is easy to mis-interpret the meaning of words that are used, so if I can suggest that if there are any areas of confusion, that you seek clarification from the originator of the message, rather than delve into endless speculation.... To all, please don't read something into what I say that isn't there and then post snippets out of context in other forums. It is extremely unhelpful and is getting me into hot water each time it happens when I have to go to my bosses and say that such nonsense was not actually what I said! :Talking Ear Off:Thanks for your understanding. :Monkey:Regards,John

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Thank you Ben. I am not too sure what he means, as it could be taken a few different ways. Maybe that was his intent, can't tell.Kind regards,
I know this is pure speculation, BUT, since John Nicol almost seems to be hinting that MS doesn't want them to create a game-like atmosphere so that MS can creat FSXI. There has been plenty of speculation about this. (Read Tom Allensworth blog post about him talking to MS about FSX)

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The fact is that FS seems to attract a lot of wimps who will readily put up with abuse from developers - most forums are full of swooning idiots and sycophants who just want to feel part of something and will rush to a developers defence as if it was a family member when in reality they are just a customer and mean nothing to the developer at all. There are two threads over there at the moment - one person came out and said that he thought one of the recently updated products was disappointing and within 24 hours another thread was born which mirrors it almost exactly with the same old people saying just the opposite and how great they think it is when I bet some of them don't even have the product. It's just silly. I have spent a lot of money over there in the last couple of years and am really looking forward to when they reach California and then hopefully Arizona and New Mexico etc - I can honestly think of nothing better but I do wonder if Orbx will be around for long enough to do it as there just seems to be a sense of panic about the place. Products are being rushed out that arent ready and even the sycophants will get tired of that eventually. Hopefully there will be a management takeover and it will be run by passionate simmers who want to produce the best 'gimmick free' product rather than those just looking to make as much money as they can before the bubble bursts.
Very true... I have actually wondered the integrity of many of the FS companies. ORBX seems to rush products and when you point out flaws, you are banned from the forum. TOTAL nonsense in my opinion.

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On the other hand almost all of the ORBX scenery products are extremely well done right out of the gate. Sometimes larger issues like library sceneries have to be updated before or after a new release, and remember, only a limited number of people can beta test before. Don't you think they do a really good job in that regard? Most of the issues crop up only after a whole lot of usage by customers.Come to think of it, I was satisfied with the release integrity of all 37 of my ORBX purchases. Some were better than others that did not need any significant patches, and some were found wanting in certain respects, but overall (to me), they were very good, bordering on excellent. The ORBX developers are exceptional in that regard. Thinking back I remember how stunned I was with Darrington, and still am for that matter.Which reminds me, I have had a new problem crop up in Darrington that I have not seen mentioned by any other customers, which I will post in a new thread.Kind regards,

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On the other hand almost all of the ORBX scenery products are extremely well done right out of the gate. Sometimes larger issues like library sceneries have to be updated before or after a new release, and remember, only a limited number of people can beta test before. Don't you think they do a really good job in that regard? Most of the issues crop up only after a whole lot of usage by customers.Come to think of it, I was satisfied with the release integrity of all 37 of my ORBX purchases. Some were better than others that did not need any significant patches, and some were found wanting in certain respects, but overall (to me), they were very good, bordering on excellent. The ORBX developers are exceptional in that regard. Thinking back I remember how stunned I was with Darrington, and still am for that matter.
I have to agree. Up to NZSI I never really had a problem as far as I remember. I didn't fly NZSI because a lot was missing (runways) but it was fixed pretty quickly. (I still don't fly there btw because PNW is so much more fun imho.) If I remember well Orbx themselves already said that the last series of addons in november/december was a bit too much and that they wouldn't do it again because some things were rushed. But compared to other devs Orbx addons usually don't need many fixes: a lot of the updates simply add new stuff!

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ORBX developers are top class,

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On the other hand almost all of the ORBX scenery products are extremely well done right out of the gate. Sometimes larger issues like library sceneries have to be updated before or after a new release, and remember, only a limited number of people can beta test before. Don't you think they do a really good job in that regard? Most of the issues crop up only after a whole lot of usage by customers.Come to think of it, I was satisfied with the release integrity of all 37 of my ORBX purchases. Some were better than others that did not need any significant patches, and some were found wanting in certain respects, but overall (to me), they were very good, bordering on excellent. The ORBX developers are exceptional in that regard. Thinking back I remember how stunned I was with Darrington, and still am for that matter.Which reminds me, I have had a new problem crop up in Darrington that I have not seen mentioned by any other customers, which I will post in a new thread.Kind regards,
Oh absolutely! In fact I am always surprised when a patch is announced as every one seems to be born perfect and I don't have any serious complaints which probably aren't related to the age of my PC. Very few people have any complaints about the quality of the scenery itself that's for sure and like I said Orbx Pacific South West will knock my socks off when and if it comes. But they do need to take their time and make sure they are properly finished when they are released. The Christmas rush was a bit unfortunate though and you could almost see the dollar signs in the eyes. I don't think I bought any of that slew of releases.
ORBX developers are top class,
The developers are indeed top class.

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Hi,People, you are taking my words and mis-interpreting them (again). :sad:Lockheed Martin will be maintaining compatibility for as long as we can. There are no plans to break compatibility, so don't know where this is coming from. There is a statement above that indicates that I am hinting that we will move into commercial development. I absolutely have no clue what this means. The product is already available for commercial use and there are no "hints". We continue to do what we are doing and there are no post-apocalyptic plans to deviate from the course we have set. A post appeared on our site indicating that the user was or intends to use the product as a one for one replacement of FSX and it looked like it was being used as a game. This is an inappropriate use of Prepar3D. Also, Prepar3D is a simulation framework that can be used to build simulators and synthetic environments. The environment will not have game-like functionality. That is part of the product description and has been on our website since day one. The clarification I was talking about, which again seems to be highlighting that I am speaking with two tongues, is the fact that I hope to continue educating the user base that Prepar3D is not a game. My native language is New Zealand English. I realize that there are a lot of non-native New Zealand English speakers in the forums (what is that all about?) so I realize that it is easy to mis-interpret the meaning of words that are used, so if I can suggest that if there are any areas of confusion, that you seek clarification from the originator of the message, rather than delve into endless speculation.... To all, please don't read something into what I say that isn't there and then post snippets out of context in other forums. It is extremely unhelpful and is getting me into hot water each time it happens when I have to go to my bosses and say that such nonsense was not actually what I said! :Talking Ear Off:Thanks for your understanding. :Monkey:Regards,John
Dear John,I know that we have no interest in confusing what anyone has stated purposely. I have the greatest hopes and admiration for P3D and if we can do anything to straighten faulty reasoning please let us know. Thank you for caring enough to address these concerns. That says a lot about how good LM is and how close to the ground you have your ears. Thank you.Kind regards,

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P3D with DX 11 and ITracker etc will be the time I think of joining up.-----------BTW: I chose the word "developers" very carefully.

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You simple cannot, no matter how nice you word it question anything these days over there. Even if your a very good customer, you become and I quote." If we lost every single one of those whiners as a customer it would make our lives and jobs easier "
Unfortunately, they are not alone with that kind of attitude. I know at least one other company, offering a top of the line military addon, that raises the bar to unbelievable height for other developers that works like this. Yeah, their developers are top notch, they broke barriers and developed systems that everyone always thought impossible to implement in FSX, good for them, but most importantly, for their customers.But come a point where they have a pretty important customer base, they start thinking they are "special". They also start thinking they own you, or that you should bow to them and not disagree on anything they do, or challenge any of their decisions.That's when things starts to get ugly.You are witnessing businesses that obviously have zero experience in customer communications and support. They feel important and if they don't like you, doesn't matter how many brown bills you spent on their product, they get rid of you.When a company takes pre-paid orders on a product and are almost 1 year late with the release, it shouldn't have the balls to ban their customers who requests updates or complaints about it, but they still do it. One last thing regarding mister Nicol's post above... No disrespect, but if you don't want your "simulation platform" to be used as a "game" as you call it, maybe it's time to stop advertising on so many "game" based forums. It's pretty obvious that more than the majority of your "developer licenses" are used for entertainment purposes.I'm way off the original topic so I'll stop here, just wanted to comment about this kind of attitude some people and their business have towards their customers.

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