Real Pilot, maybe?

[wanabflyer 53]

What is so disturbing is that when you think of the huge responsibility it is to be in charge of so many lives, how little value it seems the airline puts on this.I take my hat off to those pilots who take on that responsibility for such small financial reward. Actually makes me feel better when i am a passenger knowing that the guys up front have got to be doing this because they love it. I have spent my entire career in construction where you can make a FO salary look sick. Or Captains come to that.Just flying around in my sim though, makes me see where they get the passion for flying.

[miami747 7]

An updated chart would be nice. ATA?The problem is not really at the major airlines or large cargo airlines its at the regionals and the very decent chance of being stuck at the regionals not making your way up. Look around one day at the airport there are plenty of 35-45 year olds flying for ASA or American Eagle etc.. Sure not a bad job from 23-31 years old or so but after that, flying the small jets with long days and low pay. When I was seriously considering and wanting to be a commercial pilot when I was younger every single pilot I ever spoke to said its probably not the best idea and every one that had a kid made sure to mention to me that none of their children were going to become pilots either. Saying that I still think it would be an awesome job if the career path went well. Given the low pay and low job security though there are better paths to take and fly on the side as a hobby. I love traveling and love aviation so being a pilot would be great, but I also like the idea of having a family, and predictiable schedule which being a pilot is not so great. A friend of mine father is a DL A320 pilot, he told me he was making a lot more money in the 90s at a DC-9 Captain than he is now as an A320 Captain.Regional pilot pay is horrible. Mainline F/O pay is not great either. It is rare to find the captain making 165K+ a year these days. Even Captain Sully was not even make more than 130k IIRC.If someone told me my career would go well, in the right seat of a regional at 23, left seat at 26, on to a 737 at 30 and left seat of a widebody by 48 I would probably say tell me where to sign. But of course that is not the case.Now if I ever did run into a lot of money one day, like lets say win $30 million in the lotto no doubt I would fly for a job in some sense. But for now a hobby it will be, both on FSX and in the real skies. Edited February 1, 2012 by miami747

[Mean Aerodynamic Chord 269]

Wow. Y'all are making me officially scared! :(

[ZachLW 37]

Regional pilot pay is horrible. Mainline F/O pay is not great either. It is rare to find the captain making 165K+ a year these days. Even Captain Sully was not even make more than 130k IIRC.

Speak for yourself. Pay is decent with seniority at the regionals, and guess what? You get the good schedule. There's a lot to be said for being home.

[maldo 5]

Im not a pilot but I spend my time working on acft's Im A&P and to be a mechanic with the airlines and seeing was is in the other side of the wall you probablie will never flight.todays date the airlines are pushing the safety margin to the limits just to save a dollar. I see it every date. and yes I work with the majors and know the rejionals.

[miami747 7]

Speak for yourself. Pay is decent with seniority at the regionals, and guess what? You get the good schedule. There's a lot to be said for being home.

I guess it is a matter of opinion with pay. I guess 90K a year which is very much possible with seniority at regional is not bad, it is decent pay. But for a job which requires 40-50k in training cost and usually also a 4 year degree the pay is not great. Not bad though, depending one where in the US one lives 90k is a good wage. But for many that look at being a commercial pilot the goal is 777, or 737 not CRJ-200 or ERJ-170. Some just want to fly, others want to fly the heavy stuff, while others would rather fly Caravans in Alaska.The few places where the money is still at in flying jobs are UPS and Fed EX and private jets for either very rich people or large companies. G-IV BBJs those guys make a nice wage. Large companies or very rich private owners who own G-IVs or BBJs want only the best of the best pilots.

[dm123 19]

edit:Daniel, or become a commercial pilot somewhere out of the USA... I hear Asian airlines are hiring...

I had been following some of the Cathay Pacific recruitment stuff for a while. It used to be quite decent actually, but they too have cut back. In the end I just dont think the lifestyle, pay, and benefits... or rather the lack of lifestyle, pay, and benefits... is worth the poverty line life into ones 30s, the lack of job security, etc etc. If I win a few million though in a lottery, sure. But short of that, I think flying GA on the weekends is a much more logical choice. A nice 9 to 5 job and $100 (er... $350+?) Hamburger flights is much more appealing as well.

Wow. Y'all are making me officially scared! :(

read.... and be scared.http://thetruthabout....com/index.html Edited February 1, 2012 by dm123

[japascoe 98]

I guess it is a matter of opinion with pay. I guess 90K a year which is very much possible with seniority at regional is not bad, it is decent pay. But for a job which requires 40-50k in training cost and usually also a 4 year degree the pay is not great. Not bad though, depending one where in the US one lives 90k is a good wage. But for many that look at being a commercial pilot the goal is 777, or 737 not CRJ-200 or ERJ-170. Some just want to fly, others want to fly the heavy stuff, while others would rather fly Caravans in Alaska.The few places where the money is still at in flying jobs are UPS and Fed EX and private jets for either very rich people or large companies. G-IV BBJs those guys make a nice wage. Large companies or very rich private owners who own G-IVs or BBJs want only the best of the best pilots.

40-50K training cost? That's pretty cheap. On this side of the pond (i.e. Europe, specifically the Netherlands) it's more like 100K (though that includes living expenses for about 2 years) + 20-25K for your type rating, and that's before we get into stuff like pay to fly, which if I understand correctly, is where you pay a company for the privelege of working for them so you can build up your hours to 500 so people will actually consider hiring you (single-engine prop hours don't count). On the plus side it's easier to get straight into jets if that's your thing (Easyjet and Ryanair take ab-initio hires and I think even the legacies like KLM and BA will drop a new hire straight into a 737 or A320).Thus I'll stick to my chosen career path of getting paid to break bits of aeroplanes :( and then figure out why, when and how it broke (preferably in a way that will let you predict how and when it will happen on a real plane). Will be starting on my PhD at the end of summer and the starting salary for that will not put me much below that table posted above. By the end of those 4 years I'll have passed UPS and maybe Airborne FO (assuming €1 = $1, with the actual exchange rate it will be higher), though it's a bit hard to compare salaries with the large differences in cost of living and tax rates.

[ramrunner800 10]

My dad flew in the Air Force for 20 years, and then got out and flew for one of the majors. The first year was tough, and even after that it wasn't cake. He doesn't fly anymore, because he can't afford it. Post 9/11, the pilots for his airline have taken a massive paycut, like 60%. His friends at other airlines tell the same story. I think the data on that chart must be way outdated. Pre 9/11, as a 777 captain, you got maybe 1 long haul trip a month, and got paid exorbitantly well for it. With the cutbacks, schedules are alot more packed, and pay is far worse. The life just isn't what it used to be.

[rocketfs 2]

Let's be honest about it: it's not all about choice.You need to have the education, intellect, personality and health (and money) to become an airline pilot.I guess for most of us here in this forum there simply was no choice :sad:Bert Van Bulck

[JET 1 0]

On this side of the pond (i.e. Europe, specifically the Netherlands) it's more like 100K (though that includes living expenses for about 2 years) + 20-25K for your type rating, and that's before we get into stuff like pay to fly, which if I understand correctly, is where you pay a company for the privelege of working for them so you can build up your hours to 500 so people will actually consider hiring you (single-engine prop hours don't count).

Taking the modular route starting from zero hours, you could decrease cost of training to 50-60k in Europe. But then you need a certain mindset and logistical skills, arranging schedules, choosing FTO's for each module.. etc. Also be prepared for long delays if FTO schedules don't match. My training took nearly three years altogether.Then again, going for one-stop integrated can easily set you back 100-120k PLUS expenses. Other than that, you're spot on.What is sickening is that self-funding your type rating and hours on it up to 500h is becoming a given. Another 50k and no guarantees. The only reason it happens is because there were, and are enough (IMO foolish) candidates that are willing to do it without blinking.

[japascoe 98]

Taking the modular route starting from zero hours, you could decrease cost of training to 50-60k in Europe. But then you need a certain mindset and logistical skills, arranging schedules, choosing FTO's for each module.. etc. Also be prepared for long delays if FTO schedules don't match. My training took nearly three years altogether.Then again, going for one-stop integrated can easily set you back 100-120k PLUS expenses. Other than that, you're spot on.

I stand corrected. Haven't really done any research, just looked at the websites of the KLM Flight Academy and Dutch Flight Academy and perhaps even remembered those prices wrong.

[hontzt 14]

Excellent point.... except that you are not going to be hired by those airlines until your are flying for at least 10 years. For true starting pay, look at a regional... so take those starting numbers, and subtract around 20 grand. And hey, that $21000 you can make your first year is more than you would have the year before as a CFI! And dont forget the crushing debt from paying for those first few hundred hours out of pocket. And the debt from college. Yeah... hope you like food stamps.In all seriousness, I desperately wanted to become a commercial pilot. But after about a week of looking at it, I realized what I really wanted (and want, still) to do is become a commercial pilot in the 1950s, '60s, and '70s.

It is very different today for sure, i'm with you on the good 'ole 50's,60's, and 70's. The good news is for overseas carriers there is an element of that old culture still there. I'm a US pilot but want to fly overseas more than I want to fly for a US carrier for that very reason, and initial pay is usually higher. On the salary chart, you have to understand that you are an FO for a lot longer than you are an FO at the regionals. So keep in mind that you have to work at the regional as an FO for dismal pay, then upgrade to Captain, build that coveted PIC time, move over to the majors as an FO again for as long as 10 years (I know very seasoned pilots that were FO for 13 years because of union rules relating to airline buyouts) and hope your airline isn't bought out, then finally make Captain then get to that 10 year point, at which you are probably close to 65, then it is retirement time. So out of a 30-35 year career you are payed those $200k a year salaries for 2-3 years, if that. I love flying, but with the high "cover" charge being in and out of furlough time away from home, low pay considering the training and responsibility, security hassles these days, putting up with a less than happy traveling public (understandable these days); flying airliners is a terrible way to make a living. There are other options of generating money to fly of course. Cheers,Todd

[OzWhitey 3,353]

Excellent point.... except that you are not going to be hired by those airlines until your are flying for at least 10 years. For true starting pay, look at a regional... so take those starting numbers, and subtract around 20 grand. And hey, that $21000 you can make your first year is more than you would have the year before as a CFI! And dont forget the crushing debt from paying for those first few hundred hours out of pocket. And the debt from college. Yeah... hope you like food stamps.In all seriousness, I desperately wanted to become a commercial pilot. But after about a week of looking at it, I realized what I really wanted (and want, still) to do is become a commercial pilot in the 1950s, '60s, and '70s.

I look at the adds in Flying every once in a while and half consider doing ATP training. I think you're right though, the time may have passed for this to be a great job. To the guy who was winning $30 million...i'm impressed you're still planning on working at all! Why not just buy your own ng? :)

[FSMP 95]

In all seriousness, I desperately wanted to become a commercial pilot. But after about a week of looking at it, I realized what I really wanted (and want, still) to do is become a commercial pilot in the 1950s, '60s, and '70s.

Exactly !! Becomimg a commercial airline pilot in the 1950s, '60s, or even '70s was a very attractive career, especailly if you had prior military aviation experience. This implies that you would would have got out of Commercial flying by now.These days, if you love to fly, I would say DO NOT become a Commercial pilot... do something that you like to do, and hopefully make enough money to be able to fly as a hobby.It's been said many times before, these days, Commercial pilots to not fly planes, they program a flying bus, and put up with more BS than the average man can take.Gone are the day of PAN-AM

To the guy who was winning $30 million...i'm impressed you're still planning on working at all! Why not just buy your own ng? :)

If you had the money, and your own NG, (after the novelty wore off), I really wonder how many hours a year you would fly it. ?Far fewer than most fly their PMDG 737 !!! Edited February 1, 2012 by FSMP