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oscar19681

the fmc gives me a impossible aproach route

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when flying milaan (limc) to eindhoven (eheh) and i select runway 9 for landing or the atc whants me there i get a route overflying the airfield runway. and then on a complete turn to my 6 o clock , the autopilot cannot complete the turn in time and i overshoot the Vor loc and the auto pilot aproach. Can i not insert another waypoint manually in the fmc to make the aproach longer? because its impossible to do an autoland then , also sometimes atc gefuses me because the airfield is ifr only and i canceled my ifr route because it never puts me on the fmc route i planned. Should i divert or just stick with the atc,s instructions?

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The built-in ATC doesn't understand terminal procedures. You can disengage the AP & follow ATC instructions, ignore ATC & follow your route, get an add-on ATC that can use sids/stars or fly with online ATC, vatsim, ivao, etc....


Kenneth Weir

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I´m doing that way that I fly IFR with ATC. I do fly the SID and as long as I can my route till the ATC gives me the intructions for approch. That´s how I do it since day one and I´ve never had any problems with that.


Best regards, Steffen

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Fight time: NGX 737-700: 37,0h; -800: 47,2h

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But how i get rid of the immposible aproach i am given by the fmc , i wish to use the atc at least for departure and landing i try to follow there instructions.

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But how i get rid of the immposible aproach i am given by the fmc , i wish to use the atc at least for departure and landing i try to follow there instructions.
Don't follow the approach, turn off LNAV and use the Heading knob. Just move it to the requested heading by ATC. Personally i only use MS ATC for the departures and when established on the Localiser. If the problem is vertical then turn off VNAV and use the MCP speed and V/S, something you seemingly have to do in the UK anyway, since the SID's and Transistions don't park you on the localiser.To use MS ATC, start by filing a plan, using them for taxi and takeoff, then simply don't contact the next station given (normally departure), you can tune it, no problems. Keep tuning and not contacting your next station. The final part is quite tricky, contact again just in time for landing cleareance, this can be problematic, it's very difficult to guess the active runway and sometimes the ATC doesn't catch on and insists that you start climbing, in which case simply ignore. Edited by WotanUK

Ian R Tyldesley

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Did you slow down enough? Try setting the appr. speed to somthing like 160 - 155 kts.programm that in the FMC. a slow speed wil shorten the turn [fly flaps 30 / geardown overhead EHEH] If the approach is an official approach then the FMC should give you the correct path.Like others I to pick my own approach [sometimes FSX has it aswell] and ignore directions, yet I do comply withe the heights given by FSX ATC. [FSX won't stop telling me to fly a heading of x-degrees until I'm over a waypoint the FSX-ATC has aswell]

Edited by jostytosty

any thing that moves, moves me

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my speed might have been a little to high ,but even if i was at sat 167 ias it still is almost impossibe to turn in such short distance, i decided to do a manual landing but when i turned off the auto throttle the speed and n1 was still not going down , even dispite using the airbrakes and not decending that fast that i could loose some speed , it was as if the autopilot still controlled the speed.

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Whenever I fly with FSX ATC...1. I make sure the FSX flightplan is the same as the NGX flightplan, so I can fly on VNAV and LNAV until (near) approach. FSX ATC usually starts to give you different headings when you are getting near the destination: until then if strictly follows the flightplan so you can tune in to the various stations and follow their directions, which gives you something to do. :wink:2. Make sure the flightplan has your destination airport in it (without the runway), so the FMC can calculate a TOD. It probably won't be exactly right, but it will give you at least an indication on when you really should start descending. See the next point.3. I usually ask for a lower cruising alt before ATC tells me to descent: FSX ATC often is too late with the descent. You have to ask this before they tell you where to land because you can't ask for a different cruise alt during the approach phase. I usually do this when I get near the TOD and ATC hasn't told me to fly lower yet. You have to switch from VNAV to another mode (I usually use LVL CHG). This may result in flying lower for a longer time then usual because ATC may give you a landing runway that requires flying around the airport a lot, but I rather fly low a bit too soon then too late. :wink:3. Switch to HDG mode as soon as ATC gives you a heading that doesn't follow the flightplan anymore and forget about the flightplan altogether from that moment on.4. When you know the runway you have to land on, add it to the flightplan. Usually two waypoints are added to the flightplan before the actualy runway: and usually this approach fix (the first waypoint) is the exact spot FSX ATC let's you fly towards when they tell you to fly a certain heading until you intercepted the localizer.5. To give me a bit more information about how long it will be until the landing I usually enter a DIRECT TO the first fix that has been added to the flightplan: LSK next to it to select it and then 'copy' it to the top of the flightplan. Probably not very realistic but since you are following ATC instructions, you don't need the rest of the flightplan anymore. Usually ATC won't let you fly directly to that fix (right away), but you can now check on the FMC and ND if you aren't too hight to make it to the approach fix if you need to and how far it is. Obviously you still will be flying using HDG.6. Keep following ATC instructions. When I am finally told to turn a certain heading and intercept the localizer, I turn that heading and when I am actually flying at it, I usually enter the same DIRECT TO as stated above again from the current location: now you will be flying according to ATC but also according to the FMC from that moment on, so now you could turn on VNAV and LNAV again, which might make the approach a bit easier. Do everything you would normally do to perform an autoland as if the ATC isn't there.That's how I do it. (Written from memory, so I hope I didn't forget something... :( ) This way you get the most out of communicating with FSX ATC (which is fun imho, at least more fun then for instance ignoring ATC during cruise) and still use the NGX AP and FMC and all other automated modes to get you where you want to without having to do things manually all the time.

Edited by J van E

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The navdata for that approach is probably improperly coded. The FMC can only do what the navdata tells it the procedure is - if what's coded in the file makes no sense, what you see on the ND won't either.


Ryan Maziarz
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Whenever I fly with FSX ATC...1. I make sure the FSX flightplan is the same as the NGX flightplan, so I can fly on VNAV and LNAV until (near) approach. FSX ATC usually starts to give you different headings when you are getting near the destination: until then if strictly follows the flightplan so you can tune in to the various stations and follow their directions, which gives you something to do. :wink:2. Make sure the flightplan has your destination airport in it (without the runway), so the FMC can calculate a TOD. It probably won't be exactly right, but it will give you at least an indication on when you really should start descending. See the next point.3. I usually ask for a lower cruising alt before ATC tells me to descent: FSX ATC often is too late with the descent. You have to ask this before they tell you where to land because you can't ask for a different cruise alt during the approach phase. I usually do this when I get near the TOD and ATC hasn't told me to fly lower yet. You have to switch from VNAV to another mode (I usually use LVL CHG). This may result in flying lower for a longer time then usual because ATC may give you a landing runway that requires flying around the airport a lot, but I rather fly low a bit too soon then too late. :wink:3. Switch to HDG mode as soon as ATC gives you a heading that doesn't follow the flightplan anymore and forget about the flightplan altogether from that moment on.4. When you know the runway you have to land on, add it to the flightplan. Usually two waypoints are added to the flightplan before the actualy runway: and usually this approach fix (the first waypoint) is the exact spot FSX ATC let's you fly towards when they tell you to fly a certain heading until you intercepted the localizer.5. To give me a bit more information about how long it will be until the landing I usually enter a DIRECT TO the first fix that has been added to the flightplan: LSK next to it to select it and then 'copy' it to the top of the flightplan. Probably not very realistic but since you are following ATC instructions, you don't need the rest of the flightplan anymore. Usually ATC won't let you fly directly to that fix (right away), but you can now check on the FMC and ND if you aren't too hight to make it to the approach fix if you need to and how far it is. Obviously you still will be flying using HDG.6. Keep following ATC instructions. When I am finally told to turn a certain heading and intercept the localizer, I turn that heading and when I am actually flying at it, I usually enter the same DIRECT TO as stated above again from the current location: now you will be flying according to ATC but also according to the FMC from that moment on, so now you could turn on VNAV and LNAV again, which might make the approach a bit easier. Do everything you would normally do to perform an autoland as if the ATC isn't there.That's how I do it. (Written from memory, so I hope I didn't forget something... :( ) This way you get the most out of communicating with FSX ATC (which is fun imho, at least more fun then for instance ignoring ATC during cruise) and still use the NGX AP and FMC and all other automated modes to get you where you want to without having to do things manually all the time.
thanks this might be of some help , but the here is if i diside to stick with the atc it sends completly of the ngx flightplan , if i dont stick with atc and i follow the fmc flightplan the IFR guidance is terminated and i can only choose flight following , this is not a problem but it is when you wish to land in bad weathr or visibilaty because some airports with limited runways will refuse you if you dont fly by the atc,s IFR guidance.Also when i plan an FSX route and then plan a NGX route in the FMC then i get crashses , freezes and weird behavure , so its either a fsx plan or a fmc plan but i cannot use both for some reason.

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thanks this might be of some help , but the here is if i diside to stick with the atc it sends completly of the ngx flightplan , if i dont stick with atc and i follow the fmc flightplan the IFR guidance is terminated and i can only choose flight following , this is not a problem but it is when you wish to land in bad weathr or visibilaty because some airports with limited runways will refuse you if you dont fly by the atc,s IFR guidance.Also when i plan an FSX route and then plan a NGX route in the FMC then i get crashses , freezes and weird behavure , so its either a fsx plan or a fmc plan but i cannot use both for some reason.
I've never been keen on joining VATSIM or the like but I wanted a much better ATC than the default FS versions. So, for several years now I have been using Radar Contact and I like it. It's not perfect but it is entirely usable and on approach you have the option of selecting an IAP approach so you can use your FMC plan all the way down to the runway. It also has other cool features like being able to declare an emergency, being able to select holds due to weather or traffic, etc.Visit the Radar Contact forum here on Avsim and ask any questions. The support, if you decide to purchase, is first class.I have no connection with Radar Contact other than being a satisfied customer. ^_^Iain Smith Edited by iainsmith

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thanks this might be of some help , but the here is if i diside to stick with the atc it sends completly of the ngx flightplan , if i dont stick with atc and i follow the fmc flightplan the IFR guidance is terminated and i can only choose flight following , this is not a problem but it is when you wish to land in bad weathr or visibilaty because some airports with limited runways will refuse you if you dont fly by the atc,s IFR guidance.Also when i plan an FSX route and then plan a NGX route in the FMC then i get crashses , freezes and weird behavure , so its either a fsx plan or a fmc plan but i cannot use both for some reason.
Yes, that's why the FSX plan has to be EXACTLY the same as the plan in the FMC, otherwise IFR guidance is indeed terminated (unless you decide not to contact the stations until you are near approach).Hm, that crashing is odd... Whenever I fly a route with ATC I simply create an FSX plan and then manually enter that plan into the FMC...Something you could try (haven't done so myself, but I will soon, maybe this evening) is creating a plan on http://www.simroutes.com When you have a created a plan and are on the Flight Plan Details page, you can download a plan for FSX and also for PMDG! Those plans will be the exact same and can be loaded in the FSX planner and in the 737NGX FMC (as a company route). Maybe this will prevent your crashing problem...?

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I would very much recommend flying online with "real" atc. Nothing beats talking to a real human when it comes to ATC in my opinion. Its fun, exciting and there's LOTS AND LOTS to learn. I thought I knew it all before I started flying online. After a few years online I realized that I did infact not even know the very basics. But thats ok, I love learning and mastering new stuff :)


Johan Pettersen

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when flying milaan (limc) to eindhoven (eheh) and i select runway 9 for landing or the atc whants me there i get a route overflying the airfield runway. and then on a complete turn to my 6 o clock , the autopilot cannot complete the turn in time and i overshoot the Vor loc and the auto pilot aproach. Can i not insert another waypoint manually in the fmc to make the aproach longer? because its impossible to do an autoland then , also sometimes atc gefuses me because the airfield is ifr only and i canceled my ifr route because it never puts me on the fmc route i planned. Should i divert or just stick with the atc,s instructions?
Hmm, it would have been helpful if you had given more detailed information. As a runway 9 does not exist at EHEH I assume that you meant Rwy04. ALL STARs are ending at NDB EHN being right close to the runway (NE of it) but the proper entry points for the ILS04 are all on a circle 10 nm away from this NDB. You normally would have plenty of time to turn even at higher speeds. Just take the charts (here) and check your FMC approach.

Regards,
Axel

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