10 years ago it was possible to build an relatively open and complete "operating system" for flight simulation. Today with all the computing power and dev-tools we have to scale down to a closed system with a couple of ga aircraft and a few islands? oh boy!

Well, let's see you try to wade through over 12 million lines of mixed code scattered out amongst hundreds of .h, .c, .rc, and .cpp files...We've already lived through the nearly complete disaster that ensued from FSX's first release. Even after two Service Packs there are still a lot of broken bits of code and poor asset realization.Nope, instead of trying to recycle the old, non-OOP code, they decided to keep what assets were salvagable, and build a new and streamlined core using the latest advances in object-oriented, modular and reusable code practices.

Hey,I deleted a number of posts that were doing nothing but taking advantage of the OP question to vent the authors' spleen against FLIGHT and Microsoft. If you hate Flight that much, please do not read or post here. This forum is not going to become the toilet for those who need to relieve themselves from their FLIGHT indigestion. The offenders know who I mean, and if you persist, we will take a lot stronger measures. I am trying to be fair and I have warned you once. There will not be another.Kind regards,

I read that, as well as the 8 comments to it. With only one exception, mostly what I read were the same untruths and outrageous claims that've polluted every flight sim forum on earth for the past year or more.

I refer only to the opinion piece by Mathijs; can't vouch for other peoples comments.Personally I didn't notice any "untruths" or "outrageous claims". Mathijs has been around the FS scene for a very long time and is not really known for either. And since he addresses the question "why are people upset" I felt that it addressed the O.P.'s question well and is relevant to the discussion.

Well, let's see you try to wade through over 12 million lines of mixed code scattered out amongst hundreds of .h, .c, .rc, and .cpp files...We've already lived through the nearly complete disaster that ensued from FSX's first release. Even after two Service Packs there are still a lot of broken bits of code and poor asset realization.Nope, instead of trying to recycle the old, non-OOP code, they decided to keep what assets were salvagable, and build a new and streamlined core using the latest advances in object-oriented, modular and reusable code practices.

Very good! Nothing to say against that.Object oriented is good! Structured, extensible and all. Complete, cohaerent and consistent interfaces. If those were exposed, everything would be perfect.A closed system may be conventient for ms but it's very bad for 3rd party devs (payware & freeware) and in the end it's bad for the customer because he has no choice.

Hey,I deleted a number of posts that were doing nothing but taking advantage of the OP question to vent the authors' spleen against FLIGHT and Microsoft. If you hate Flight that much, please do not read or post here. This forum is not going to become the toilet for those who need to relieve themselves from their FLIGHT indigestion. The offenders know who I mean, and if you persist, we will take a lot stronger measures. I am trying to be fair and I have warned you once. Their will not be another.Kind regards,

I just don't understand your standards. Tom keeps posting how we are allowed to post negative comments, as long as we are civil and there are no personal attacks. You delete posts and threads just for not being positive about Flight. Tom closes a thread for reasons unknown.Yet this thread, that is clearly here to bait the other side remains open and then sanitized, so only one side of the posts remains.I have been trying to post as calmly as possible in the face of tirades from Flight supporters, personal attacks and now I have to navigate the minefield of moderator post deletions and warning, for which I see no reason.Just what are we allowed to post in this forum? Please clarify.

Hey,I deleted a number of posts that were doing nothing but taking advantage of the OP question to vent the authors' spleen against FLIGHT and Microsoft. If you hate Flight that much, please do not read or post here. This forum is not going to become the toilet for those who need to relieve themselves from their FLIGHT indigestion. The offenders know who I mean, and if you persist, we will take a lot stronger measures. I am trying to be fair and I have warned you once. Their will not be another.Kind regards,

I think you might have been a little over-zealous in this regard. My (extremely polite) post could in no way be considered a "vent". I meantioned that I liked Flight twice within the post. Is it possible for you to undelete the posts so that others can see what I said? Please send me a PM and inform me what specific language I used that would be appropriate for a "toilet".

The single biggest reason is that many have simply refused to accept that MSGS is starting out by attempting to build a solid, reliable core platform, as well as get the new distribution and installation system to work smoothly for everyone, and do so using a small, but very tightly integrated geographic area. This minimizes for them the number of problem areas to deal with.Once the core is deemed reliable and solid, then they (MSGS) can begin the process of bolting on new modular bits with increased functionality.Flight is version 1.0 of an entirely new paradigm for MSGS. It really is that simple.

Did you really just say that..LOL!

To the OP, here is my 2 cents, not everybody is upset at MS and it's not everybody that don't like Flight.I see two kind of peoples upset at MS....the hardcore simmers who were expecting MS to have everything in Flight and more as FSX does OUT OF THE BOX (can't blame them)........the others are the 3PD (some, not all of them) who were left behind by MS shutting them down and others who will not be able to make addons (freeware or payware) for Flight.Listen to Bill in is #9 post, last sentence.... Flight is version 1.0 of an entirely new paradigm for MSGS. It really is that simple. Where did we see something like that.....that's right XP-10.....updates all the time...so if this is good for XP-10 can it be the same for Flight. 3PD developers (some of them) are surprised (and scared) to see how many peoples are posting good and fair reviews and comments about Flight, can we blame them, FSX is their bread and butter so if Flight does take off assuming that MS implement (and they will trust me on this one again) Flight with what we don't see yet, like AI, car traffic (I see roads in Flight), airliners (I see international airport in Flight) and bigger area a lot more peoples may slowly drift to Flight, buy more content and neglect FSX (addons wise).This is only my 2 cents on why some hate Flight....Be patient peoples.....Prepar3D is making improvements on their sim, XP-10 is also improving their sim....what do you think MS is doing with Flight as we speak....yes you got it....improving it.

Flight is the best thing to come along since sliced bread.

I see two major causes for the HATE. #1, Flight is not FS11. FSX was good, but people want MORE of FSX, and that would be FS11. FS11 never fully existed and was never officially announced. Its like Big Foot. Some people claim they have seen it, but did it really exist? Ill tell you the answer to that question in about 3 years. Microsoft canned the ACES team, along with the hopes of FS11. That ###### a LOT of simmers. Flight is not as full featured as FSX, so its a bit of a downgrade for most FSX users.#2, Microsoft Flight has no public SDK. FSX a lot of previous MSFS series has a public SDK. Anyone could pick it up, learn it, and release scenery or airport add-on's and even sell them to make money. I sell FSX add-on's at KCFS just like many others. Its made a huge community and really has enhanced FSX and FS2004 a lot. MS ended that era were I can make money from there product, and dashed a lot of the hopes of 3rd party venders. Not only that, but the community GREATLY supports 3rd party venders like us. So not only did MS ###### off 3rd party venders, they ###### the fans that support 3rd party venders.With those two facts, its clear to understand the hate. MSFS has always had a VERY loyal fanbase, and MS has done a lot to ###### that fanbase off.

I see two major causes for the HATE.#1, Flight is not FS11. FSX was good, but people want MORE of FSX, and that would be FS11. FS11 never fully existed and was never officially announced. Its like Big Foot. Some people claim they have seen it, but did it really exist? Ill tell you the answer to that question in about 3 years. Microsoft canned the ACES team, along with the hopes of FS11. That ###### a LOT of simmers. Flight is not as full featured as FSX, so its a bit of a downgrade for most FSX users.#2, Microsoft Flight has no public SDK. FSX a lot of previous MSFS series has a public SDK. Anyone could pick it up, learn it, and release scenery or airport add-on's and even sell them to make money. I sell FSX add-on's at KCFS just like many others. Its made a huge community and really has enhanced FSX and FS2004 a lot. MS ended that era were I can make money from there product, and dashed a lot of the hopes of 3rd party venders. Not only that, but the community GREATLY supports 3rd party venders like us. So not only did MS ###### off 3rd party venders, they ###### the fans that support 3rd party venders.With those two facts, its clear to understand the hate. MSFS has always had a VERY loyal fanbase, and MS has done a lot to ###### that fanbase off.

Finally somebody that make sense !!that is the truth and that is why ms has been slashed !

Edited March 2, 201214 yr by arsenal82

Kevin, is it not what I just said in my post....lol :drinks:

Edited March 2, 201214 yr by alainneedle1

I see two major causes for the HATE.#1, Flight is not FS11. FSX was good, but people want MORE of FSX, and that would be FS11. FS11 never fully existed and was never officially announced. Its like Big Foot. Some people claim they have seen it, but did it really exist? Ill tell you the answer to that question in about 3 years. Microsoft canned the ACES team, along with the hopes of FS11. That ###### a LOT of simmers. Flight is not as full featured as FSX, so its a bit of a downgrade for most FSX users.#2, Microsoft Flight has no public SDK. FSX a lot of previous MSFS series has a public SDK. Anyone could pick it up, learn it, and release scenery or airport add-on's and even sell them to make money. I sell FSX add-on's at KCFS just like many others. Its made a huge community and really has enhanced FSX and FS2004 a lot. MS ended that era were I can make money from there product, and dashed a lot of the hopes of 3rd party venders. Not only that, but the community GREATLY supports 3rd party venders like us. So not only did MS ###### off 3rd party venders, they ###### the fans that support 3rd party venders.With those two facts, its clear to understand the hate. MSFS has always had a VERY loyal fanbase, and MS has done a lot to ###### that fanbase off.

A+One more thing: It's not even a problem right now. FSX is still strong and has a very healty ecosystem. But in 10 years it's a dead horse.On the other hand I'm pretty sure that there will be a successor of some kind (ms or not).

To the OP, here is my 2 cents, not everybody is upset at MS and it's not everybody that don't like Flight.I see two kind of peoples upset at MS....the hardcore simmers who were expecting MS to have everything in Flight and more as FSX does OUT OF THE BOX (can't blame them)........the others are the 3PD (some, not all of them) who were left behind by MS shutting them down and others who will not be able to make addons (freeware or payware) for Flight.Listen to Bill in is #9 post, last sentence.... Flight is version 1.0 of an entirely new paradigm for MSGS. It really is that simple. Where did we see something like that.....that's right XP-10.....updates all the time...so if this is good for XP-10 can it be the same for Flight. 3PD developers (some of them) are surprised (and scared) to see how many peoples are posting good and fair reviews and comments about Flight, can we blame them, FSX is their bread and butter so if Flight does take off assuming that MS implement (and they will trust me on this one again) Flight with what we don't see yet, like AI, car traffic (I see roads in Flight), airliners (I see international airport in Flight) and bigger area a lot more peoples may slowly drift to Flight, buy more content and neglect FSX (addons wise).This is only my 2 cents on why some hate Flight....Be patient peoples.....Prepar3D is making improvements on their sim, XP-10 is also improving their sim....what do you think MS is doing with Flight as we speak....yes you got it....improving it.

Spot on Alain ! I fully agree with you.Fred.

Did you really just say that..LOL!

Yes Jeff, I did. Everyone seems to conveniently overlook the near disaster that FSX RTM was, and which even after thousands of man-hours and two Service Packs remains to this day with lots of broken bits of code, CTD's etc.Nonetheless, FSX + SP2/Acceleration remains a very good platform (well, really the only viable platform) that cater's to the needs of the many, despite it's warts.Don't you think that even Microsoft is capable of learning that you can't really make a silk purse out of what was methophorically speaking a sow's ear? :LMAO: