This is where FS2CREW voice version comes in, really feels like two guys are up front, he works through all the FO roles and makes hand flying a lot of fun indeed.

I always fly SID's up to 10.000 ft myself. STAR's depends though. Sometimes I take over from the first STAR fix, but other times I only take over when I'm fully established.

Since Ryanair is king in fuel-saving that sounds weird.

You can play with energy management much more efficiently then autothrottle+autopilot in these stages of flight...

Just keep in mind that complex SIDS/APP's can get challenging, especially if you have never flown them before. Very easy to get in trouble when flying stringent departure/approach manually. Add in some weather and traffic and the pilot quickly enters tunnel vision. I hand fly when i can, but as soon as things get complicated, automation comes on and my SA increases 75%. Now i have extra brain cells to monitor automation, first officer, communications, and flight progression.Also, automation management is part of your qualification in the aircraft. Automation has decreased incidents during departure and approach.

automation management is part of your qualification in the aircraft. Automation has decreased incidents during departure and approach

Interesting point but don't you think too much automation pilots cannot have the 'feel' of the aircraft and in a serious situation sometimes judgement is not correct?I fly frequently in real life EDDH - LGAV with the Airbus family 320s and 321s and when we are boarding, I always drop an eye inside the cockpit and most of the time I see on the right seat boys sitting. Well, dont misunderstand me. Well what I mean is that they look young and I wonder myself how much experience they have to hold the aircraft in severe situations instead of pushing buttons and having the laptop infront of them finding the VSpeeds .

Here's my take: With these larger planes I don't have any problems engaging A/P. In real life the crew uses CRM to flow and operate the aircraft. We don't have that luxury and it's silly thinking we can do all of that ourselves. The NG does trim out nicely but like G550 guy said, add in weather, emergencies, complex ATC comms etc etc and you can get behind very rapidly.

Well what I mean is that they look young and I wonder myself how much experience they have to hold the aircraft in severe situations instead of pushing buttons and having the laptop infront of them finding the VSpeeds .

Please don't single out us young people. My friend similar age works at a regional airline here in the states. I went to college with him where we both learned to fly. He is a superb pilot, very sharp, able to handle the most odd situations. I am an air traffic controller and I pride myself on doing excellent work as well.

If you were the captain of a 737NG and your first officer became incapacitated for some reason and you didn't take advantage of autopilot function you would not be using good judgement and could very well be putting your pax in danger.

Please don't single out us young people. My friend similar age works at a regional airline here in the states. I went to college with him where we both learned to fly. He is a superb pilot, very sharp, able to handle the most odd situations

I don't have any doubt that he is doing a superb job. My post was not to single out you young people you misunderstood me totally. What I was trying to point out in my previous post , was that too many buttons the crews might loose the feeling of flying the aircraft in a serious situation and that is compared with pilots that have been flown the old generation airplanes 707s 727s etc but now we are getting off topic because the main subject is AP or handflying the SIDs.

Interesting point but don't you think too much automation pilots cannot have the 'feel' of the aircraft and in a serious situation sometimes judgement is not correct?

Ok, I'll give you a common scenario that I see a lot.Let's say you are on a complex departure from an airport surrounded by terrain and loaded with traffic. The weather is down to 500agl with 1/2 mile vis. On departure you decide to hand fly the aircraft for accuracy. At 500ft you enter the soup on your departure. When your co-pilot contacts departure, you are given an amendment to your departure due to traffic. You are given crossing restrictions and the controller asks can you make an altitude by a certain point. He also needs you to expedite your climb between restrictions. There you are heads down, focused on your PFD and MAP. Your co-pilot is feverishly working the FMC so that you can get good FD data as you fly. You are now waiting for the MAP to catch up as your co-pilot add the points and restrictions. You are also asking him, questions like," At what point is the amendment different?", "What heading should I take after that point". "what were the crossing restrictions?" Your co is overloaded and he is working as fast as he can to get ATC the info he/her needs, and to accommodate you. You take a quick peep to see how he's doing, and that's when you finally notice that the master caution light is on. You now take quick peeps around the cockpit to see the cause of the light as you also focus on your instruments. In my eyes you are in a bad place right now. That place would be my last resort.Now this is how I would handle this same situation.I would have LNAV/VNAV armed for departure. As soon as the gear is in the wells, and passing 500, the AP is coming on. In the 550, I would have the SID up on the co-pilots nav display or on my yoke in a 5. At this point i would closely monitor the SID and cross check it with my nav display, and FMC. As soon i would notice the aircraft deviating, i would go heading select making corrections. All ATC communication would be written down on my knee board. This way I can cross check with my co, all of the clearances. As he reads back clearances, I'm following along. As he hand jams on the FMC, I'm monitoring the aircraft and watching what the non flying pilot enters into the FMC. Once again, cross checked and verified. I would immediately select MCT power and work with the non flying pilot to figure out what we can or can't do. As soon as the master caution light comes on, I would take the radios and have the PNF get into the QRH. As I monitor the aircraft, i would follow along as we work through the issue. I once watched a guy bomb a sim check because he didn't use the auto throttle during a malfunction while hand flying. He stalled the jet. Some people feel that they can out fly ole George. George does a excellent job because he is making calculations that i don't even bother to think about. Its tough for some to realize that flying newer complex jets means you are more of a manager than a captain. Anyone can fly an aircraft. It's how you manage a crew/situations that makes the difference. As far as age goes, I honestly have rarely met a new/young pilot who couldn't fly the aircraft. They tend to do that very well. It's knowledge of SOP's, flight planning, crew resource/flight management , and regulations that new guys lack.

yup Fs2crew voice is hand for hand flying =)

You are given crossing restrictions and the controller asks can you make an altitude by a certain point. He also needs you to expedite your climb between restrictions. There you are heads down, focused on your PFD and MAP. Your co-pilot is feverishly working the FMC so that you can get good FD data as you fly. You are now waiting for the MAP to catch up as your co-pilot add the points and restrictions. You are also asking him, questions like," At what point is the amendment different?", "What heading should I take after that point". "what were the crossing restrictions?" Your co is overloaded and he is working as fast as he can to get ATC the info he/her needs, and to accommodate you.

A very dramatic situation indeed and a nice scenario for a film but all these preparations are not taken on the ground before take off? All the restrictions and points cannot be seen through your charts when you are preparing the FMC before the flight?. So why all this drama with feverish co pilot reactions? The ATC will instruct you accordingly for sure before take off if there are some changes.

A very dramatic situation indeed and a nice scenario for a film but all these preparations are not taken on the ground before take off? All the restrictions and points cannot be seen through your charts when you are preparing the FMC before the flight?. So why all this drama with feverish co pilot reactions? The ATC will instruct you accordingly for sure before take off if there are some changes.

Film????Really????????....Really????This scenario is,RW, and common In the North East of the U.S.. The scenario I gave you is very minor compared to other situations I've experienced. Though I'm based in the North East, we fly world wide often. You can plan all you want on the ground, but changes happen and happen often. At this point you have to quickly clean up your FMC. Just because you file for a specific departure, it doesn't guarantee that you will get it. Changes usually come at anytime, on the ground, after takeoff or at cruise. I normally get them after checking in with departure. Half the time, the points are not even on your flight plan or the departure. In this case you are feverishly flipping through the HI or LO chart to find these points to verify you have the right one. I've found that alot of airports in Europe will not give you your clearance until you are near the runway. I've had to copy clearance while rolling onto the runway in Sicily. The SID is actually for relieving the controller. They make a lot of amendments to SIDs based on their needs. This is why SIDs will change over time. I was just trying to give you some insight on how some of us RW operators operate. This was aimed at answering your original post. If you know better, then please disregard my posts.

So why all this drama with feverish co pilot reactions

feverish because he has to do everything himself in a short period of time while you are hand flying. I'm in the situation alot during flights when I'm in the right seat training the new guy in the left seat(I'm a training captain). At least I have the experience and techniques to get it done since it's my job on the line. Never the less even I can get over whelmed when flying with a new guy at times. Plus no one wants to be violated for not complying with instructions. Last thing you want the controller to say is "give me a call at (---) --- ---- after you land". In my profession we call that a career altering event.

If you know better, then please disregard my posts

Rick,I never said I know better thats why Im here in these forums to share opinions. For me every answer I get is valuable including your answers too so I don't understand why you are upset

use the trim.