Skip to content
View in the app

A better way to browse. Learn more.

The AVSIM Community

A full-screen app on your home screen with push notifications, badges and more.

To install this app on iOS and iPadOS
  1. Tap the Share icon in Safari
  2. Scroll the menu and tap Add to Home Screen.
  3. Tap Add in the top-right corner.
To install this app on Android
  1. Tap the 3-dot menu (⋮) in the top-right corner of the browser.
  2. Tap Add to Home screen or Install app.
  3. Confirm by tapping Install.

Hand flown SIDs

Featured Replies

Hello,I've read somewhere that a good airmanship is that during takeoff the SIDs to be flown by hand and AP to be angaged at the end of the procedure. My question is how can a SID be flown precisely by hand considering the height and speed restrictions, plus the continious heading changes on the same time?Does that applies to STARs too?

Panos Kotzias

  • Replies 40
  • Views 4.2k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

You could click vnav + lnav and follow the flight director. Its really straight forward.As for "if it applies to STARs as well", it depends. Some companies require the pilots to enable autopilot as quickly as possible during the departures, and as late as possibly during the approaches, other companies leaves it up to the pilots. Pilots do in general prefer to fly the plane tho, instead of relying on the automatics.

Johan Pettersen

I'd never do that in FSX. Keep in mind that in real life there are two pilots sharing the workload. Within the sim, it's difficult to operate all the switches and knobs with mouse and keyboard and at the same time, fly the airplane. Not impossible, but why struggle when there's an autopilot. But I am sure there are people who love hand flying SIDs and STARs. The NGX is still one of the easier airplanes to be handflown, it is great fun to handfly it, and can be trimmed precisely.

Zsolt Monostori

LHBP

 

Intel i7 930 @ 2.8 GHz - Asus P6T-SE Motherboard - Ultron Blue Air Gamer Case ATX - Antec 750Watt Green Power PSU - 3x2GB 1600 DDR3 RAM - 500GB SATA 7200rpm HDD - LG Sata 20X DVD-0Write - PointofView GTX470 1280MB 2xDVI/mini-HDMI DDR5 - WIFI PCI Card 802.11 - Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit

I once flew dfw to las with only the fd guidance, no at or ap from wheels up to down. It'll keep you on your toes. Trim is the key!

Kenneth Weir

My Saitek yoke mod

 

i7 2600k @ 4.7

8GB Gskill CAS7

2x GTX580 SLI Surround + GT520 Accessory

Win7x64

Hello,I've read somewhere that a good airmanship is that during takeoff the SIDs to be flown by hand and AP to be angaged at the end of the procedure. My question is how can a SID be flown precisely by hand considering the height and speed restrictions, plus the continious heading changes on the same time?Does that applies to STARs too?
SOP for most airlines today (I have not said ALL) is to use AP and AT as much as possible for the most efficient operation on modern aircraft.Yes the aircraft systems do it better than the real life human in some respects.egOne local Airbus operator engages AP at wheels off and disengages at 50FT above threshold. Similarly for a boeing operator..AP on at 400FT (cause you can't engage below that ) and off at 50FT.some pilots do hand fly for recency BUT company SOP encourages use of AP and AT.High fuel prices..better aircraft efficiency..AP and ATnot sure who would say its good airmanship to hand fly a SID and STAR UNLESS company SOP dictates departure and arrival procedures will be hand flown below MSA though for the life of me that gives the crew an added workload they could do without in critical phases of flight.my 2.2 cents worth (GST or VAT inc)

Rob Grant
Compass Airlines - Stretch Your Wings Australia
 

Ryanair pilots fly the approaches manually in most (99 percent) cases, at least those I flew with based in EIDW.

Zsolt Monostori

LHBP

 

Intel i7 930 @ 2.8 GHz - Asus P6T-SE Motherboard - Ultron Blue Air Gamer Case ATX - Antec 750Watt Green Power PSU - 3x2GB 1600 DDR3 RAM - 500GB SATA 7200rpm HDD - LG Sata 20X DVD-0Write - PointofView GTX470 1280MB 2xDVI/mini-HDMI DDR5 - WIFI PCI Card 802.11 - Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit

I fly all approaches from 1000ft to the gate and I fly from the gate up to 1500ft .Then and only then do I engage/disengage the autopilot.Keeps you sharp and the feeling of accomplishment is very rewarding. After a few times the procedures (the flaps and gear etc. ) are 2nd nature.

Boeing777_Banner_Pilot.jpg

I usually hand fly up to 5000 on the SID and I always disconnect the AP above 2500 on approaches (in good WX). Much more enjoyable and when you have FS2Crew doing a lot of the work it isn't hard at all :)Ethan

- Ethan Pothering

i7 960 CPU @ stock 3.2ghz, GTX560 Ti card, 9 Gb RAM and 1.5 Tb pf hardrive space. Its getting old. 

Building up on Ethans post, FS2Crew can be especially helpful with MCP commands when handflying.

--Peter Fabian 
RTFM.jpg

Disconnect at 50ft? Seriously? That sounds.... I don't know whats the word but needlessly risky. I'd prefer to get stabilized in manual flight with a bit more time than that.Regards,GeorgeP.s. fs2crew is indeed the solution to workload management!

  • Author

Thank you all for your valuable answers and opinions.To me it was obvious that engaging AP and AT at the early stages of an SID it minimizes the aircrew workload till I saw that article God knows where was it. On the other hand, think of aircrews that flying long distances. Perhaps they perform 2 takeoffs and 2 landings per month. This is not good for getting an experience. So logically some SOPs perhaps they demand from their aircrew to perform handflying the SIDs STARs takeoffs and landings. Contrary to the crews that fly regional routes.

Panos Kotzias

Ryanair pilots fly the approaches manually in most (99 percent) cases, at least those I flew with based in EIDW.
Since Ryanair is king in fuel-saving that sounds weird.Bert Van Bulck

I think the key to hand-flying a SID is to have a plan. Think ahead. Certainly when you fly the thing by yourselve.About real life, most has been said already. Automation can take away a lot of work from the crew. Any decend pilot can judge wether he needs it or not. There are airports and times you would avoid flying anything by hand because of the path complexity, noise abatement, altitude restraints, ATC commanded step climbs and traffic density. (not to talk about fatigue, fuel bonusses and other factors). Thinking about it, you must be nuts to become a pilot these days :)I once saw a video on youtube of a 747 departing from EGLL wherer the crew had their hands full even flying on autopilot.Bert Van Bulck

I allways fly the SID manual till I´m on 10.000ft. The only help I do have is FD and VNAV+LNAV engaged. It´s really easy and keeps you trained. And on approach I disconnect the AP when I´m at the GS interception point and handfly the rest.

Best regards, Steffen

vrs_supporter_zpsiwiqesbo.png

Fight time: NGX 737-700: 37,0h; -800: 47,2h

Create an account or sign in to comment

Account

Navigation

Search

Search

Configure browser push notifications

Chrome (Android)
  1. Tap the lock icon next to the address bar.
  2. Tap Permissions → Notifications.
  3. Adjust your preference.
Chrome (Desktop)
  1. Click the padlock icon in the address bar.
  2. Select Site settings.
  3. Find Notifications and adjust your preference.