Hi,

 

Why should Microsoft support TrackIR? No, seriously.

This seems sort of backwards to me. All of the movement can already be accomplished by various inputs, so it seems that the makers of TrackIR should spend there time and money making their product compatible. As I'm not a TrackIR user I'd rather MS devoted their time and money to something I would benefit from.

But personal preferences aside, would it make economic sense to Microsoft? For FSX, I recall a reading of a freeware program being developed which used a webcam to accomplish the same thing as TrackIR. If MS pursued something along these lines it seems that Flight would have greater appeal; greater appeal, more sales. More sales, more development; everybody wins.

 

Jim F.

Hi,

 

Why should Microsoft support TrackIR? No, seriously.

This seems sort of backwards to me. All of the movement can already be accomplished by various inputs,

 

 

That's like saying MS shouldn't waste time making Flight compatible with joysticks or yokes since the same thing can be accomplished with other inputs.

 

so it seems that the makers of TrackIR should spend there time and money making their product compatible.

 

 

They have. But MS Flight still needs the ability to interface with TrackIR. Natural Point can't do anything about that. MS has to program it in.

 

As I'm not a TrackIR user I'd rather MS devoted their time and money to something I would benefit from.

But personal preferences aside, would it make economic sense to Microsoft?

 

Only MS knows the answer to that question. They will sell more "copies" of Flight if it supports TrackIR. Several people on various forums have said that lack of TrackIR support is the one thing keeping them from getting into Flight. But, again, only MS knows if the increase in users will justify the cost to implement. But, then again, they have said they are actively implementing it, so I guess it does make sense to them.

 

For FSX, I recall a reading of a freeware program being developed which used a webcam to accomplish the same thing as TrackIR. If MS pursued something along these lines it seems that Flight would have greater appeal; greater appeal, more sales. More sales, more development; everybody wins.

 

Jim F.

 

Yes. There is a program called Face Track No IR (or something like that) that does that. That would be great if MS implemented that or something similar that they come up with on their own. But they aren't.

Why should Microsoft support TrackIR? No, seriously.

 

Here is the answer to your question, from the beta site:

One change that’s in process is that – although at this time we have nothing to announce – due to the consistent and numerous requests for TrackIR, we’re actively working on putting it in a future update.

That's like saying MS shouldn't waste time making Flight compatible with joysticks or yokes since the same thing can be accomplished with other inputs.

 

All other devices use the standard HID (human interface device) API in Windows. They do not need custom support to be built into any games. If Track IR used these APIs, then they also would be supported out of the box like all other HID devices.

 

The real question is, why does Natural Point require custom support implemented into games instead of using the APIs that every other control device uses? Why don't they use the HID API like everyone else has to? If they did, Flight would have Track IR support now.

 

Edit: I found the answer to my own question. They do it to monopolize the head tracking market.

 

http://naturalpointofview.blogspot.com/p/trackir-anticompetition.html

 

Disregarded the industry standard Human Interface Device (HID) protocol, with explicit provision for head trackers (Section 6 VR Controls), in favor of creating a closed proprietary interface protected by a restrictive license agreement and NDA. By tying it to their cameras they effectively established it as the de facto standard for game head tracking.

Yes. There is a program called Face Track No IR (or something like that) that does that.

 

Yes, it is quite interesting, requiring only a webcam, without hats or similar things. It is also freeware, the official page is:

 

http://facetracknoir.sourceforge.net/home/default.htm

 

A.

All other devices use the standard HID (human interface device) API in Windows. They do not need custom support to be built into any games. If Track IR used these APIs, then they also would be supported out of the box like all other HID devices.

 

The real question is, why does Natural Point require custom support implemented into games instead of using the APIs that every other control device uses? Why don't they use the HID API like everyone else has to? If they did, Flight would have Track IR support now.

 

Edit: I found the answer to my own question. They do it to monopolize the head tracking market.

 

http://naturalpointo...ompetition.html

 

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Well, ya got me beat there. You know way more about it than I do. I didn't know or realize any of that.

 

:drinks:

I can answer this with one word: immersion

 

Changing your view with head movements will always seem way more "real" than doing so with a finger-activated controller.

seems that the makers of TrackIR should spend there time and money making their product compatible

 

 

The TrackIR Devs submitted the SDK to MS roughly 14 months prior to Flight being released. It is a very simple and small SDK. The reason Microsoft hasn't included it has nothing to do with technical challenges, but is due to some other "force" within MS.

The TrackIR Devs submitted the SDK to MS roughly 14 months prior to Flight being released. It is a very simple and small SDK. The reason Microsoft hasn't included it has nothing to do with technical challenges, but is due to some other "force" within MS.

 

That other force was the complaints about ATC, AI, and all other things including bugs. Give them credit. For such a small team, they have created such a great product.

a finger-activated controller.

 

But in life you more often times change your view with your eyes not your head. You don't put you chin on your chest to look down !! Its why quit using any "head" movement apps. Now, give me an eye motion detector and I'm all over it!

The TrackIR Devs submitted the SDK to MS roughly 14 months prior to Flight being released. It is a very simple and small SDK. The reason Microsoft hasn't included it has nothing to do with technical challenges, but is due to some other "force" within MS.

 

I wonder if TrackIR offered to met Microsoft's costs - after all TrackIR will benefit from extra sales

You should still be able to use your eyes to glance down. I am set up so that I can see most of the panel including switches with the cc. my field of view in FSX is about the same in RL.

 

I very tiny nearly imperceptible shift in head position will bring the switches into view, just like in RL. It really is very natural once you get used to it and fine tune your field of view.

give me an eye motion detector and I'm all over it!

 

That would be cool, too.

 

But, IMHO head movements are still better than nothing. The thing is, with TrackIR the movements are smooth and continuously variable (simultaneously) in all axis. That adds a degree of realism that all other current methods lack.

But in life you more often times change your view with your eyes not your head. You don't put you chin on your chest to look down !! Its why quit using any "head" movement apps. Now, give me an eye motion detector and I'm all over it!

 

You'll also need a full-motion rig to move your monitor around to keep your eyes pointed at it. That's the key to things like TrackIR... letting you keep your eyes on the monitor while looking around with head movements.

I remember reading that trackir does all the calculations on the device itself and sends the gathered input info to your pc where freetrack or track noir takes up more computer resources because your pc is doing most/all of the work. I'm not sure if that would, if at all, degrade performance enough to become noticable. I do use trackir 5 with ezdok and the immersion is a cut above using just keyboard or joystick inputs, something about the slight head movements you get using head tracking along with a jostling aircraft that can fool your brain. This really comes handy when you are using the stick and rudder together, like acrobatics, because you don't have to fumble with a coolie hat to switch views.