This is what makes me mad about "Flight" more than anything.

 

The greed that was behind the whole thing. The whole "give you a base product that isn't even a full game and pay-as-you-go" DLC model. That just smacks of pure, un-adulterated GREED and I am glad if backfired big time. I usually don't jump on the "I hate da man" posts, but this was a clear instance (IMO) of greed and not really wanting to produce a quality product, IMO.

 

Really? Do you know what the cost of producing a title like Flight is with all the associated salaries? Can you come up with the spreadsheets and financial reports that show they wanted to make an exorbitant amount of cash above and beyond their operating costs? How do you come to that conclusion that makes you so mad? Honestly I'd like to know. Please point me in the right direction because now I'm curious. I feel it was the right plan, just the wrong steps in execution and communication.

I've said it before and I will say it again. Flight was likely cancelled because the end results in sales are not living up to utilizing those resources (developers) in areas that can produce larger results. I have no doubt Flight made some money, but it's a drop in the hat compared to some of their other products. In the end I suspect any of us would have made the same decision when faced with the same realities, especially if our livelihoods are on the line.

 

I'm sad to see it go, but I am firmly in Scott's corner of this issue. My job is to market simulations, and I will continue to market them, wherever they may take me. I have enjoyed many years in FSX doing my line of work, and I will likely continue to do so for some time to come. I will also branch out, and have done so proactively in the past, into other simulations. My business must be adaptable, and if I am not able to follow the current my business will sink.

 

I foresee us going into a market similar to what we saw in the 90s, where there will be multiple platforms for us to utilize. For the consumer, this is not a bad thing and increases competition and innovation. The stop of development in Flight has no effect on my business as I was not marketing there to begin with. I will however continue to work with great developers like A2A, and I still see the future as bright.

 

As for whether or not AVSIM had anything to do with Flight, this is a simulation community. Of COURSE AVSIM has to positively and proactively provide news and a place for Flight.... that is what this site was designed for. AVSIM has not done anything other than provide all of you with a place to express your opinions, read news and check reviews. If you do not agree with their particular opinions, you are free to do so. The reality is at the end of the day, this is still the largest flight simulation dedicated website in the world. Developers (marketing in my case) come here for a reason. I for one am glad AVSIM exists, even if I was not a fan of MS Flight and often have opposing views to those who may find the simulator enjoyable.

As for whether or not AVSIM had anything to do with Flight, this is a simulation community. Of COURSE AVSIM has to positively and proactively provide news and a place for Flight.... that is what this site was designed for. AVSIM has not done anything other than provide all of you with a place to express your opinions, read news and check reviews. If you do not agree with their particular opinions, you are free to do so. The reality is at the end of the day, this is still the largest flight simulation dedicated website in the world. Developers (marketing in my case) come here for a reason. I for one am glad AVSIM exists, even if I was not a fan of MS Flight and often have opposing views to those who may find the simulator enjoyable.

 

The fact that someone had to use cowardly innuendo and leave it open to interpretation tells me there is an agenda there. If AVSIM was not who the "AHEM" was referring to, then I would encourage a clarification and quickly. Of course AVSIM reported on, established forums for, and supported it's readership that did enjoy Flight. Just as we have done for FLY!, ProPilot, X-Plane, ad nauseam. And the poster's point was???? We should feel guilty for having done so? What a load of BS.

The fact that someone had to use cowardly innuendo and leave it open to interpretation tells me there is an agenda there. If AVSIM was not who the "AHEM" was referring to, then I would encourage a clarification and quickly. Of course AVSIM reported on, established forums for, and supported it's readership that did enjoy Flight. Just as we have done for FLY!, ProPilot, X-Plane, ad nauseam. And the poster's point was???? We should feel guilty for having done so? What a load of BS.

 

If your agenda was to support simulations, you have succeeded. I don't think we need any cloak and dagger for that agenda. ;)

Really? Do you know what the cost of producing a title like Flight is with all the associated salaries? Can you come up with the spreadsheets and financial reports that show they wanted to make an exorbitant amount of cash above and beyond their operating costs? How do you come to that conclusion that makes you so mad? Honestly I'd like to know. Please point me in the right direction because now I'm curious. I feel it was the right plan, just the wrong steps in execution and communication.

 

The point I was trying to make was Josh Howard didn't care about Flight Sim(ming) and only cared about making a quick buck:

 

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/380841-flight-post-mortem/

 

The whole strategy of trying to make a civilian flight game for the masses is rooted in a flawed assumption from the start, IMO. The assumption is (was) that there is (supposedly) this huge, untapped market of gamers who wanted a civilian flight game when that is just not true. You don't even need sales records to verify this. Most gamers who want flight games want arcade-style, combat games like HAWX and others.

 

This is why I am "mad" -- and I'm not even mad; just frustrated -- That Mr. Howard did not allow the talented team of developers who DO have a passion for civilian aviation to carry out their vision/goal and instead turned "Flight" into what is essentially another fast food gaming title instead of the proper sim it could have been if MS wasn't so obsessed with the bottom line. Some things like goodwill and legacy mean a lot to customers, but apparently not in this fragile global economy, ironically.

FLIGHT has been plagued with serious problems since before its release.

 

The first indicator FLIGHT was not going anywhere fast was the initial dust up between DEVS and MS during the Beta Testing. Some of us tried to point out the obvious, but were quickly shouted down by those who still believed in a Santa Clause.

 

Then came the information that FLIGHT was Hawaii only, to which we were again, shouted down by those who still believed in a Santa Clause.

 

Some of us were doing a little bit more than just raw speculation. A DEV or two even pushed the envelope of the NDA by sounding the alarm in public. To which most reached to the extreme to explain away their posts as disgruntled behavior, impostors and UFO's...

 

Then came the release and everything all of us had been saying was true. Tightly controlled DLC, very limited 3rd party input. Hawaii only with no airliners...

 

Then came the disappointment after disappointment as MS released, one after the other... WWII era planes, most with no cockpits... not a single airliner in sight.

 

Next came huge hopes with Alaska that all was about to change.

 

But some who were in the know again tried to soften the blow urging others to look at the past releases for an idea of where it was all headed.

 

With each passing release MS upset more and more SIMMERS. Many held out hope things would change... but it should of been obvious that ship had sailed. FLIGHT was what FLIGHT would always be.

 

Then MS announces to the world it posted a profit loss for the first time in 26 years...

 

it was all over then.

Very quickly I wanted to point out that when I spoke to the gentleman from Microsoft at FANCON in 2007 they used some very interesting terminology that sadly seems to have not found a home. They referred to FSX metaphorically as an "operating system" with which developers could use as a canvas to build further platforms. SimConnect is an example of that type of thinking. That was 2007 however, and it is now 2012. The people using that language are long gone.

 

It is what it is.

They referred to FSX metaphorically as an "operating system" with which developers could use as a canvas to build further platforms. SimConnect is an example of that type of thinking. That was 2007 however, and it is now 2012

 

Hello

And here we are in 2012 and what they were referring to has come true, we have an operating system (FSX) that developers around the world are creating fantastic products for.

Those developers have pushed FSX far past what MS originally released and it continues to be expanded.

What a shame MS could not follow their own vision.

The point I was trying to make was Josh Howard didn't care about Flight Sim(ming) and only cared about making a quick buck:

 

 

 

Ok, thanks for clearing that up, but to me it's still all rumor and innuendo.

On a totally off topic note your name brought back memories of when I had the fancy title of "Cryogenic Fluids Production Specialist"

True "simmers" have spoken with their wallets. Viva FSX!

 

Stan

This does not surprise me. FSX will be the mainstream future.

So yes, Tom, I'm directly questioning where your loyalties truly lay,

You've always been arrogant and hyper-egostical Allensworth, but this was a new low, even for you.

 

 

Hello

If you guys could hold on for a minute while I grab some popcorn and a beer,

This one should be worth watching :fool:

P3D now seems like a foundation for keeping FSX going. With the converter running most installations I have done lately automatically point to the P3D directory and also writes scenery updates to the very same FSX.cfg used by FSX.

FSX will be the mainstream future.

 

Its self sustaining. Its like a machine that has become "Self aware" by 3rd party developement!

 

Thanks Scott for putting it so eloquently and the work your organization does. Today make one really appreciate it!

I will stay / go where ever pmdg is

 

Same here.... lol