Hi Everyone! B)

 

I am new to flying the 707 and So I have a question to ask which hopefully someone will be able to answer.

So obviously the 707 has no FMC system its all pure old school navigation. Therefore Calculations had to be done by the Pilots, Not the computers. So for Instance, The FMC can give you the optimum cruising speed for a particular altitude.

On the 707 How can you work out your cruising speed for your altitude? It wouldn't be a problem if the cruising speed stayed the same all the time but as you get higher the IAS you fly at becomes less and less (For Example at FL300 you may fly at 320IAS, But at FL360 only around 290-300).

 

Help is appreciated!

Kriss

I'm not sure about the 707, but I fly sometimes the HJG 727. What I do is setting up cruise EPR (thanks Matt Zagoren for your charts) and just let it go. If I'm too close to barberpole, I just reduce power a bit. Back then fuel was a lot cheaper....

 

Maybe there are some power/altitude charts for the 707.

Not sure which version of the 707 you fly, but the HJG site is a great forum to search for all info relating to the classic jets.

 

Here's the info relating to the HJG B707 series.

 

http://tonymadgehjg.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=hjgaircraftlistings&action=display&thread=1567

 

Hope it helps.

 

Pete.

Typical cruise speed of a B707 is 320KIAS at lower altitudes and Mach0.80 at higher altitudes. You can also use Mach 0.82

 

Trevor

I'm not sure about the 707, but I fly sometimes the HJG 727. What I do is setting up cruise EPR (thanks Matt Zagoren for your charts) and just let it go. If I'm too close to barberpole, I just reduce power a bit. Back then fuel was a lot cheaper....

 

Maybe there are some power/altitude charts for the 707.

Not sure which version of the 707 you fly, but the HJG site is a great forum to search for all info relating to the classic jets.

 

Here's the info relating to the HJG B707 series.

 

http://tonymadgehjg....lay&thread=1567

 

Hope it helps.

 

Pete.

Typical cruise speed of a B707 is 320KIAS at lower altitudes and Mach0.80 at higher altitudes. You can also use Mach 0.82

 

Trevor

 

Thanks Very Much Guys! Much Appreciated! :Peace:

Hello,

 

so how pilots safely crossed atlantic, pacific...? DId thay had INS(inertial NAV) at least?

 

If I can post another question. How did fighter in WW2 came back to UK, if it was very foggy? I know germans had "blitz" signal that guided them directly on target, and back to flughaffen.

 

Cheers

Hello,

 

so how pilots safely crossed atlantic, pacific...? DId thay had INS(inertial NAV) at least?

 

Cheers

 

Early (1960) 707 and Dc-8's had a(or two) dedicated navigator(s) on board.

They used celestial navigation with the help of a sextant and the stars.

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sextant)

They used also systems like LORAN ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LORAN )

Later (1968) they were equipped with INS.

 

Guy

 

sextant in 707

 

Our primary nav system was Omega for trans Atlantic or any long haul flights where VOR's or NDB's were not in range. Omega was very user friendly and was pretty accurate. The Navigators were phased out just before I started flying but the nav table, nav station and sextant hole were still there. This pic is an actual shot of my flight deck, cannot remember now where we were going. The Omega sys is outlined in green.

 

Douglas

OMEGA appeared only in 1971 :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega_(navigation_system)

 

Omega was a global radio navigation system based on 8 transmitter

stations round the world (whith a range of up to 10000 miles!).

 

Another radio navigation system used after the war and also in th

1960's on the 707 was CONSOL (SONNE) :

 

http://en.wikipedia....ne_(navigation)

 

LORAN is the only radio navigation system still operational today.

 

Guy

Our primary nav system was Omega for trans Atlantic or any long haul flights where VOR's or NDB's were not in range. Omega was very user friendly and was pretty accurate. The Navigators were phased out just before I started flying but the nav table, nav station and sextant hole were still there. This pic is an actual shot of my flight deck, cannot remember now where we were going. The Omega sys is outlined in green.

 

Douglas

 

That ship was originally N372US (Northwest) per the SELCAL.

 

Apparently it is still flying! Currently registered as ST-APY with "Trans Arabian Air Cargo".

 

Would be curious to see what the flight deck looks like today...

 

WOW!!!! What great information!

 

I love this topic and just bought the CS 707 just to learn about this stuff.

 

Douglas, I wish you were local (Florida) and would teach me all about this subject or just tell stories. That was a great era to be a pilot. Personally I am not a big fan of glass cockpits.

 

My roomate and all of my friends are Navy pilots (F5s) and while that is interesting I want to learn the core of aviation.

 

I will follow any info you guys want to post. Reading the links tonight with GREAT interest.

 

Thanks for taking the time. It is like you guys read my mind.

 

I enjoy the navigation more than the piloting....well almost. :lol:

Yeah - we still used OMEGA in the 80's/90's to get fixes on "modern" US Attack Subs... The OMEGA receiver was my gear - so I normally operated/maintained the equipment... We tended to favor NAVSAT's for fixes to insert into our INS - prior to the addition of GPS receivers - but we always plotted the OMEGA fix as well... LOL - some were better than others... Pretty similar to planes I guess...

 

Regards,

Scott

Good descriptions of celestial navigation and the use of sextant :

 

http://en.wikipedia....tial_navigation

 

and hyperbolic radio navigation with the different systems (Gee, Loran, Omega, Decca...)

 

http://en.wikipedia....olic_navigation

 

Guy

For world war 2, although not available at the beginning,

The Gee system could be used to locate targets, usually by a lead aircraft fitted with the system and worked similar to the Decca Navigation system, 1 Master Nav transmitter, & 3 slave transmitters.

For night landing or fog a beam approach (blind) landing system, kind of like an early ILS was available.

Gentlemen, and Miss Sara,

 

thank you for such deep answer, I still can not believe that thay used orientation via stars , amazing! For Omega system I know it, since they also used it on subs, it trully was an amazing equipment for that era.