Hey guys, this may be a commonly asked topic but I can't seem to find the answer to it.

Firstly I've used the PMDG 737 NGX for about 6 months now and have slowly been going through the manuals learning as I go. But the main problem im having is knowing which STAR to use when planning my route on the FMC. I can do the SIDS and the rest of the route fine with the route plan I made pre flight (with the fsx planner) but when I get up to the STARS it just seems like its a 'pot luck' of choices. I never seem to get the right one and It all gets very messy very quickly when I do choose one. I also don't understand the transitions properly. I've seen people say just use the last point on the flight plan before the airport listed, but this just doesn't seem relevant at all. To give you guys an example of of what im on about I planned a route from KSFO to KSLC. The last point before the airport is TCH (116.80) (VOR) but there is nothing in the STARS for KSLC even slightly relevant to that, please help.

 

Thanks a bunch

I use Flight Aware a lot.  Takes the drudgery out of it.  Here are the commonly used routes from KSFO to KSLC...

 

http://flightaware.com/analysis/route.rvt?origin=ksfo&destination=kslc

 

Gregg

Hi Flying Kiwi

 

 

I agree SIDS and STARS can be complicated  I have tons of charts I have printed up  from http://skyvector.com/   you should check it out and print up some charts has runway info sids stars its a really great site if you dont already know about it, then you can pic your STAR out so you dont have to go thru all the trouble on the FMC , lots of other features there as well, far as I can tell I can only get charts for USA major and regional airports.  

Hope this helps you out!

Just a tip, use your mouse wheel to zoom in and out on the site,  Like zoom into Salt Lake on the map  and click on the dot  (green or red) depending if there is a delay there, then click on link to airport, will give you ALL info on the airport, charts etc    really great info

 

Don't need to print out, just need multiple monitors

skyvector is a great website since it shows all the airways available, Be sure to take a quick peek at low altitude as well as the high ones ... though usually Low airways used for transitions from High airways to STARs are usually included in the high chart.

 

Compare waypoint names to STAR transitions. *Transitions* not just the STAR names. 

 

In the USA this is easy as pie with flightaware. In other parts of the world SID's and STAR's are not often filed with the flight notification, so some study beforehand is needed (and access to charts, both airway and SID/STAR).

 

Suggest planning the STAR before takeoff so that you don't end up on an airway that is actually never used for arrival to some airport. 

 

Another way to do things (thinking outside the box) is to pick a SID and a STAR that most resembles the direction direct from/to where you are going. Then join the transitions up with airways. Only then after your flightplanning is completed should you think about touching the FMS.

 

In Europe, you will find different SID/STARs for different runways, but the TRANSITION points will be common. so you might have GAREK3A which has a ANPIE transition, GOY transition and YANIE transition, a JAVIS2D that has a GOY LORAL and YANIE transition, and a POL2N with a GOL LORAL POL and YANIE transition, and a ANPIE4B which only goes via ANPIE.

 

If you want to travel via ANPIE, you should use ANPIE as the reference point for the flightplan notification (what you file - and what you enter into the route page of the FMS) Then you will need to use Charts to see why ANPIE has it's own procedure ANPIE4B, and is also on the GAREK3A with ANPIE transition. - Likley you will find the ANPIE4B procedure is only available for one of the runways, and GAREK3A is only available for a different (set of?) runways.

 

You would then note this down. ANPIE4B only available for runways 34L/34R - GAREK3A via ANPIE for Rwy 16L/R

 

I usually do this with tabs on my browser. Decide which airway I want, look at the first 1 to 5 waypoints on it, and then check all the procedures for any that have that waypoint on the end of their transitions.. Close the ones that don't fit, then check the differences between the ones left over.

Thanks to all three of you, you've all been a fantastic help. Now to see if I can make it work!

A lot of sources for Europe, but the free version of VRoute is what I use for routes. On the rare occasion there isn't one, it's back to the charts. Sometimes (rarely) I actually enjoy banging charts, especially since SkyVector covers Europe now. Love the layers as well.

 

SIDs and STARs will become second nature, though I know it's hard when you have to learn it all alone.

 

Oh, sounds like we'll have another VATSIM pilot in no time!

 

Keep up the good work!

 

with the fsx planner

 

My recommendation would be to never use the FSX planner.  Ever.  It will take you forever, and it's not very accurate (if you tell it to build a route for you).

 

Try the link in my sig for figuring out both how to route yourself.  It also goes pretty far into how and why to select what SID and STAR, and how you plan your route around that.

I planned a route from KSFO to KSLC. The last point before the airport is TCH (116.80) (VOR) but there is nothing in the STARS for KSLC even slightly relevant to that

 

A quick glance at the charts will tell you that Wasatch VOR is located right on top of KSLC airport. With experience you'll learn that real-world routes don't work like that. Instead, the last waypoint of your planned route will generally be a good hunderd-ish NM distant from the field, allowing you to perform your descent along the STAR that will lead you towards the terminal control area.

 

As Kyle stated, don't use the FSX planner. Instead, pick up something like vroute, FSbuild, or a myriad of similar alternatives to generate your flight plans. Selecting the right SID and STAR becomes a whole lot easier if you've got a proper flight route to connect to.

Ima check out that flightware page myself, never heard of it until now hopskip

 

thx

Thanks everyone! I never thought I could get this much support from a forum. Thanks again

 

Another thing that has not been mentioned is that STARs are often given be the arrival ATC prior to descent and not at the time of flightplanning. This is because there are several factors present at arrival which will detremine the routes, not least being the amount of traffic and runway in use. As far as I understand, in the US STARs are actually initiated at the flightplanning stage but in Europe the STAR is added during flight when given by the destination ATC. In fact if you use PROATCX this is the exact procedure that the software adopts.  But, if you do not have any ATC program that uses this method and you rely on default ATC then it makes things a lot more difficult. I  used to go round in circles as I would initiate a particular STAR for a certain approach and then find that the opposite runway was in use on my arrival! As I say, this is my understanding of things.

 

You'll find selecting SID/STARs is a lot easier if you build a flightplan.

 

Use this : http://rfinder.asalink.net/free/

 

so let's input KSFO - EGLL.

 

rfinder gives us :

 

KSFO SID LIN J84 MVA J56 TCH J154 OCS J94 ONL J148 MCW J16 BUF J547 SYR J29 BGR J595 YSJ J573 YYG J509 YQY J575 YYT NATS NETKI DCT NIBOG UN551 BEL UL10 HON STAR EGLL

 

Which looks something like this:

 

 

You can go to simroutes and export it to the PMDG: http://www.simroutes.com

 

What SID to use is usually denoted by the first item on the FPL. In this instance it's "LIN".

 

http://yurik.flightgear.ru/KSFO.pdf

 

Search that document for "LIN". You'll find "LIN" on the chart of a few SIDs there. So if you were going to depart from RWY 28R you would go for the CUIT2.LIN departure or RWY 10L the DUMB6.LIN departure and so on.

 

For the DUMB6.LIN you would select DUMB6 RWY 10L and choose the LIN transition in the FMC.

 

 

 

For the STAR our final waypoint on the flightplan was HON. So search this document for HON (the document is a Jeppview PDF of EGLL, which contains all the SID/STARs inside. Just Google XXXX airport Jeppview it's usually the first link).

 

http://www.virtualiroma.it/eventi/VARLONDRA02/EGLL.pdf

 

Great so if we search HON we can see that we can expect the BNN3A arrival. Now for Heathrow the STARs don't really change for the runways, it would be different for other airports. But I guess the same principle applies.

 

 

I hope this gave you a rough idea!

Your STAR is out-of- date. It's currently BNN 4A.

 

More importantly, all BNN STARs  end at the BNN VOR. BNN 4A dosen't continue to the LAM VOR as you shown. If it did aircaft using it would meet aircraft flying the BNN 1E STAR from LAM head on. Also the BOVVA STARs are only used when the BNN VOR is out-of-service.

 

As far as I understand, in the US STARs are actually initiated at the flightplanning stage but in Europe the STAR is added during flight when given by the destination ATC.

 

This is correct.

 

In the US, you select the STAR yourself (or the dispatcher does, but we're our own while simming unless you're grabbing plans from FlightAware) and add that to your flight plan.  There are rare circumstances in which ATC will change it for you: runway changes (we don't have too many runway-dependent STARS out there, but there are some), traffic management being the main reasons.

In the UK the STAR is effectively determined by the last airway leg in the flight plan. For example the official definition of BNN 4A is:

 

BNN 4A Arrival via L15 (Fl150 to FL190), L10 (FL140 and below), N615 (FL90 to FL140)to HON VOR continue on HON VOR R142 to TORBID then SOPI to WCO NDB then turn left onto BNN VOR R298 to BNN VOR