A couple of weeks ago I bought Eaglesoft's Cessna Citation X. But only this morning did I have a couple of hours to load it up in the sim and play around with it. It is, to be sure, a beautiful model -inside and out, and the vc views are especially good. However, (and perhaps I should have rtfm before buying it) I then found to my profound irritation that the fmc is practically worthless and only there for show. It's a nice bitmap but no more, meaning it doesn't have the more important functions of an fmc. So, instead we have a cheapo Garmin GPS that you can call up with one of the simicons. This strikes me as being an enormous step backwards, given the ability -as shown by PIC 767, PSS 744, 777, PMDG 737, etc. -to now offer almost fully functional flight management systems. I personally love entering waypoints into an FMC - and then watch my flightplan come to live (leaving aside the fact that the fubard FS ATC will most likely make a hash of any flightPLANNING you might have done, preferring instead to vector you hither and yonder, until you turn off the "NAV" button in frustration and just let the autopilot fly the damn plane in the "HDG" mode), so it completely and absolutely ruins the sense of immersion I have when I have to sit in front of a "mock-up" that pretends to be an FMC.This brings me to a related point: I see that a lot of folks are "retrofitting" their Citation's with Reality XP gauges. I have to ask, why? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see anything on the Cessna Citation webpage that would suggest that, indeed, Cessna is offering the Citation with Jetline avionics and Garmin GPS receivers. And why would they? The "real" Citation has two wonderfully functioning FMCs, with an excellent display, it seems, of "rising runways." Slapping reality xp gauges onto a Citation panel is again a huge "immersion killer" (for me).I'm hoping that in the future bizjet simulation developers WILL include the latest avionics in their models.Ricardo

"Slapping reality xp gauges onto a Citation panel is again a huge "immersion killer" (for me)."Well, on that note I have to disagree. I have my C750 fitted with the JetLine4 PFD and ND, the GNS530, and the Wx500. When JetLine C is ready, I'll lose the GNS and drop in dual FMC's. IMHO, RXP avionics packages are second to none, and are an upgrade over anything currently available, package or standalone. I own every product they've released, and can't say enough about how satisfied I am with what they've done.Eaglesoft did a great job with the Honeywell set-up they designed for the C750. Unfortunately, the set-up just is not up to the standards I've become accustomed to, using RXP products. Spend some time with an RXP retrofit, and you'll have trouble looking at anything else.

Ricardo,One piece of advice. Before you buy anything - do minimal amount of research to make sure it has features you are looking for. Next, look at the price - this alone will tell you quite a bit. You are not going to get these days FMS equipped aircraft for less than $40. Also look at the total download size. A complex aircraft like Citation X and with download size about 30 MB - you know it can't be top notch realism. To give you an example Flight1's ATR (twin engine turboprop with less "glass" than Citation X) is approaching 150 MB. Michael J.WinXP-Home SP2,AMD64 3500+,Abit AV8,Radeon X800Pro,36GB Raptor,1GB PC3200,Audigy 2, Omega 2.7.90 (4xAA 16xAF)

There has been talk about implementing the FMC for a charge of course though.

I have to agree with Michael J. on this one...I was excited about the package also, but spent about 30 minutes tracking down the function of the FMC (i.e. the free manual, forumns, ect.)Since these aircraft rarely are dispatched without a fully functioning FMC, and thus not flown that way. I too gave this package a pass. HOWEVER, I do very much respect the developers for making this and other very very nice product.I have been looking hard at the CJ series, as they appear very complete. Also, kudos for this same group to actually post enough info for us to make these kind of informed decisions.

Ricardo, We state openly that the FMC is not fully functional.:-) Our aim, whenever development time permits is to offer fully functional FMCs with the appropriate PFD/MFD combinations in GDI+ for our aircraft. Whenever development time permits we plan to begin work on these projects but no time frame or costs have been determined:-) This has been stated in our support forums and we encourage you to register and login there.

Well, there are those of us who "fly the jet" and those of us who watch the computer fly the jet. :) To each his own. Give me steam gauges in a geriatric jet anytime. :)The Cit X is a wonderful FS2004 package, with some concession to realism and economics.Oh, by the by, she handles really well upside down - and you don't spill a drop of the wine. :)Best,Bill

>This has been stated in our support forums and we encourage>you to register and login there.Hmm....I've been waiting for a confirmation e-mail from you guys forever.I just recently tried again, nothing yet.

>Well, there are those of us who "fly the jet" and those of us>who watch the computer fly the jet. :) To each his own. Give>me steam gauges in a geriatric jet anytime. :)I agree, and nothing is more important to handflying than uber-smooth gauges. Watch the computer fly it my arse....

As a GA pilot, until quite recently (when I was trying to prepare for my two hours in the United 777 sim at the Avsim conference) I knew very very little about FMCs, other than a vague impression about a system that integrates various nav sources and does flight planning. In that blissful ignorance, I have spent several very pleasurable hours in the Eaglesoft Citation X, and I am very impressed with the PFD/ND/etc. displays in the airplane - and I own Jetline4 and several other RXP products (and even a couple Project Magenta products) so I know how good it can get.Remember that there are several levels of simmers, from the folks that want to see what happens when they crash into things to those with their very own $30,000 home cockpits. I fall somewhere in between; I'm pretty much of a stickler for accuracy as much as can be possible in FS2004, but I still find this to be one of the more enjoyable aircraft to hand-fly and also do long trips in (I flew it to Hawaii one day, although FS crashed when I was less than 100 miles from Hilo (*@#$!!!!).To be sure it'd be nice to have a 100% accurate FMC in the CX, but it's still a nice airplane in so many other respects. My main beef is that I can't seem to get the gal in back to give me her phone number.Dave Blevins

>My main beef is that I can't seem to get the gal in back to give>me her phone number.>>Dave Blevins(whiper) I don't think she likes men (/whisper)

While I await an FMC either from Eaglesoft or Reality XP, I have been using the FMC function that comes with FSNav. It works good. I have found the Citation X (while a CPU resource hog for some reason on my computer) to have the best flight dynamics out there. She is a pure joy to hand fly with my Jetliner Yoke/Throttle quad setup.

Brian, email confirmation is no longer needed....if you've registered just simply login and have fun.:-)

The CJ series includes the same FMC functionality as the CX....just so there is no confusion:-)

>Brian, email confirmation is no longer needed....if you've>registered just simply login and have fun.:-)DOH !Thanks. :-shy