Darn, looks like your website went down....oops, it's back up.

Was capable of taking off with more than 40 tons without any flaps at Madeira airport well before the end of runway... seems a bit unreal!

 

I've never seen a single plane ( payware and freeware) on FSX that will not take off without flaps and trim. Only exception is the CS 727 with the Micheal 2 mod. After installing his bit of genius, the 727 requires trim and flaps to get off the ground. The P...737NXG will take off just fine loaded heavy without flaps at normal speeds. It kind of annoyed me as well. Think it might be an FSX thing. Not sure.

The plane, again, flies as it's supposed to ... based on the fact that the person who made the FDE is an actual Boeing 747-800 pilot who also flew 737-200's... (Tom Falley)  As well, Bernt Stolle, who has flown Boeing aircraft as well as Airbus' has also flown this without subsequent comments and or crits that weren't followed up.  (to be clear, these two gentlemen work with MV on a regular basis and, with the exception of the B-55, ALL of our aircraft are done by either of the two)

 

In the end, it's what you're comfortable with.   However, we're comfortable with it being right and accurate.  If you're not... well, what can I say?

 

Full reverse only on the reversers... (why would you want anything else?)

 

 

Full reverse only on the reversers... (why would you want anything else?)

 

Best answer to a question I've read all day, here, there, or anywhere else, about anything else...

If you're a customer, please check your email.

 

Thanks.

The plane, again, flies as it's supposed to ... based on the fact that the person who made the FDE is an actual Boeing 747-800 pilot who also flew 737-200's... (Tom Falley) As well, Bernt Stolle, who has flown Boeing aircraft as well as Airbus' has also flown this without subsequent comments and or crits that weren't followed up. (to be clear, these two gentlemen work with MV on a regular basis and, with the exception of the B-55, ALL of our aircraft are done by either of the two)

 

In the end, it's what you're comfortable with. However, we're comfortable with it being right and accurate. If you're not... well, what can I say?

 

Full reverse only on the reversers... (why would you want anything else?)

 

I just asked two simple questions... if you felt the need to be the wise guy, go ahead... suit yourself... I could care less.

 

 

As for me, I still think that T/O with more than 40 tons and no flaps at 120 knots it's not real....

Yes, it can be done the other famous B737, but one has to be almost at 200 knots. Fsx will forgive it, real life might not, as the tires are certificated to 200 knots max speed, IRC.

 

 

About the reversers, at least you could have quoted me correctly.

And that's where I'll stop...

 

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk 2

 

 

I'm sorry you think I was being glib. That's not the case.

 

For the reversers, I'm sorry but I wasn't quoting you. I was responding to your statement/question. Which, sorry to say, makes little sense to me.

 

As far as how it flies is concerned, you don't feel it's right. Alright. That's your opinion. However, I'm going to go with the opinion of the two men who are not only active pilots, one of whom flew the beast in question, but who are also both artists of the FDE.

 

Nuff said on my side.

As for me, I still think that T/O with more than 40 tons and no flaps at 120 knots it's not real....

Yes, it can be done the other famous B737, but one has to be almost at 200 knots. Fsx will forgive it, real life might not, as the tires are certificated to 200 knots max speed, IRC.

 

 

 

I'm sorry you think I was being glib. That's not the case.

 

For the reversers, I'm sorry but I wasn't quoting you. I was responding to your statement/question. Which, sorry to say, makes little sense to me.

 

As far as how it flies is concerned, you don't feel it's right. Alright. That's your opinion. However, I'm going to go with the opinion of the two men who are not only active pilots, one of whom flew the beast in question, but who are also both artists of the FDE.

 

Nuff said on my side.

 

not trying to pour fuel on the fire, but the correct answer lies with the facts.  I'm only bothering to comment because I feel like instead of it being a battle of opinions about the accuracy of the fde, let's just look at the data right there in the FCOM.

 

If the plane takes off with no flaps, over 40 tonnes, at 120 knots, then the flight model is clearly wrong to allow this.  It doesn't matter that 40 tonnes is obviously very light, it either flies by the real numbers in a v speed table, or it doesn't.  There is no v1, v2, and Vr listed for a no flaps takeoff at that weight.  At flaps 1, 90k lbs, the V2 is 136, so with no flaps it would be higher.  If it is only able to lift off around 140 in that situation, an educated guess would indicate that it would probably be correct.

 

I don't know if daniel_pt is telling the facts when he says the Milviz 737 can lift off at a mere 120 knots, 40 tonnes, when clean, but if it does that, then it is incorrect.   140 probably, but not 120.  I'm not taking sides, because I don't know if the Milviz 737 will lift off like daniel_pt says, just interjecting that it should be a fact-based argument, not one based on opinion of whether the fde is accurate or not.  Maybe Milviz is correct, or maybe daniel_pt is correct, but it ultimately comes down to the numbers in the table, and how close the plane actually adheres to them.

According to a thread at pprune a no flaps 737 takeoff has been done at least once, http://www.pprune.org/tech-log/248544-b737-forgetting-set-take-off-flap.html

Let's not forget also, that just because published V speeds, may be for example, a VR of 136kts, that does not mean an aircraft will not take off before 136! ...... there is of course plenty of tolerance built into the published numbers.     If a plane has a VR of 136, (at whatever flap setting), I would expect that it could take off at 120;  albeit slowly, unpredictably, with less control authority and safety... hence a higher number is published, that assures the correct safe performance from the aircraft.

 

Whether or not a plane can perform, for example, taking off with no flaps, is more black or white.   

Let's not forget also, that just because published V speeds, may be for example, a VR of 136kts, that does not mean an aircraft will not take off before 136! ...... there is of course plenty of tolerance built into the published numbers.     If a plane has a VR of 136, (at whatever flap setting), I would expect that it could take off at 120;  albeit slowly, unpredictably, with less control authority and safety... hence a higher number is published, that assures the correct safe performance from the aircraft.

 

Whether or not a plane can perform, for example, taking off with no flaps, is more black or white.   

 

I appreciate what you're saying, but no way is the plane going to fly 20 knots early.  Tail strike for sure if you even try to rotate high enough to get off the ground.  

We're testing this right now with full accuracy on.

Just ran a test at KSEA while working on the custom AP.

 

Here are my notes:

 

OAT +14C
Pressure Alt 406ft
Flaps 1
Trim 5.5
TOW 87900lbs

 

This gives a VR of 128 and a V2 of 136 although it is slightly lower than the 90000lb mark.

 

I held the stick fully back all the way. Aircraft started to rotate at 124 or so and left the ground at exactly 134.

 

Conclusion: You MIGHT get off the ground at 120 if you have the realism sliders down or have the trim waaaay beyond the takeoff zone. I cant even get the aircraft to rotate quickly enough to leave the ground at 120 so....As Q400 Flyer pointed out you would probably be at the edge of a stall all the way.

Yes, it can be done the other famous B737, but one has to be almost at 200 knots. Fsx will forgive it, real life might not, as the tires are certificated to 200 knots max speed, IRC.

Yes FSX will forgive it, but being Milvis is running on FSX, kind of stuck I guess.

 

The P.... 737 lifted off with 75 tonnes TOW at 100k ,( 43k below Vref) no flaps, and no trim (0.00) with very little performance difference than TO at Vr 143 ( normal) and flaps 5 and normal trim of 5.05 . One would think in real life the plane wouldn't even get off the ground with those numbers, not to mention there was only a very slight performance difference. I don't think the folks at P... would have overlook such a thing if it could be dealt with. Again, leads me to believe this unrealistic behavior is a FSX limitation.

 Another problem is there is no real world data to support a TO with no flaps. Just a theory, so be nice. After all, its Friday.

Just a note:

Mike Ray's book says always make a flap selection (5,10,or 15 in CDU) for takeoff .. generally speaking, most big airplanes will NOT get airborne using normal runway lengths.