Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

koala63

Why no more MD-11 in the real world?

Recommended Posts

Hello guys :)

 

I fly this plane since more one year, i tested the 737NGX and the newer 777 and... i like too but for me they are not better than my favorite MD-11  :P

On ivao network, with so many weather condition and ATC restriction, i do only one go around because i was unable to see the runway at my MDA alt in winter.I think this is great plane and secure plane too.

 

 

I don't know well the story of the MD-11, just he does his first fly on 1990 and when boeing bought Mcdonnel Douglas they don't follow the livreries.So i think this plane isn't a lucky plane.He is more newer in technologies navigation than the young 777-200.So can anyone explain me with précision the true story of this great plane?  ^_^

 

 

Thanx a lot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

I heard the Md11 is not as economical in regards to fuel economy as the 777. The ability to cut fuel will make a carrier stop using the MD11.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

I heard the Md11 is not as economical in regards to fuel economy as the 777. The ability to cut fuel will make a carrier stop using the MD11.

 

 

It will be good to show difference between the 744 and MD-11 on the same fligt, using the same flight plan.

 

 

 

FedEx Express still flies 64 MD-11 aircraft (source: Wikipedia)

 

 

UPS and lufthansa has got a MD-11 fleet too but KLM retired all the MD-11 :( 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 


just he does his first fly on 1990 and when boeing bought Mcdonnel Douglas they don't follow the livreries

 

The MD-11 faced internal competition with the 777. Boeing made the decision to end the M11 production line because of that reason. The 777 was selling and the M11 wasn't.

 

 

 


So i think this plane isn't a lucky plane.

 

That third engine (more expensive with maintenance and fuel costs) and the lackluster performance numbers really sealed the M11's fate. McDD intially advertised that she could compete with the longer range 777s, but she wasn't and SIA cancelled their orders and AA (or FX or DL) grounded theirs until McDD came up with the performance upgrades.

 

 

 


He is more newer in technologies navigation than the young 777-200

 

Actually, the 777 has newer technology.

 


It will be good to show difference between the 744 and MD-11 on the same fligt, using the same flight plan.

 

I think the 747 and M11 can carry approximately the same payload almost the same distance.

 

 

 


KLM retired all the MD-11

 

Actually, I believe they pushed back the last retirement until later this year into next year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just for the record KLM is currently operating MD-11s from Amsterdam to Los Angeles, Montreal and Toronto. I believe they are the last airline using the MD-11 in passenger service but there are many using them for cargo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just saw one the other day into Toronto but it was the KLM Cargo version, not pax.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The MD-11 faced internal competition with the 777. Boeing made the decision to end the M11 production line because of that reason. The 777 was selling and the M11 wasn't.

 

The problems for the MD-11 began long before the merger because the original MD-11 could not meet range and fuel burn guarantees.  Some orders were cancelled and even though the performance shortfall was eventually recovered the damage was done and sales remained poor.  The failure of the MD-11 was part of the reason McDD ceased to be competitive and sought a merger with Boeing.  There was no real point in continuing with the passenger version after the merger, given the success of the 777, but the freighter had no direct competition so production was continued for a while. 

 

Uncompetitive as a passenger aircraft, it's still a great freighter and will no doubt remain flying in that role for many years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MD-11F and 747-400F are very close in payload vs. range, with the MD-11 actually requiring less fuel to do it (3 vs. 4 engines - the equation works both ways! :lol: ).

 

Now the 747-8F is available it would be a different story.

 

The big killers of the aircraft were its wings (too small) and engines (higher than expected fuel burn). The design concept of the MD-11 was reduction of drag vs. the DC-10, which worked, but the LSAS became a liability, resulting in the loss of several airframes.

 

I've always wondered if the fate of MD and the MD-11 was sealed after the loss of SR111. There was a big deal back then about insulation blankets and capton wiring, which the MD-11 used extensively (so did Boeing and several other manufacturers but that seemed to make little difference).

 

Best regards,

Robin.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The issue is that the Md-11 is basically a re-engined DC-10 with a glass cockpit so the basic design is nearly 50 years old. Aircraft design has come a long way in that time I recall hearing that the Md-11 has more drag on one wing then the 777 has on the entire airframe which means it burns alot more fuel. Also from what I hear from some pilots of the Md-11 it isn't a very good plane and I think that has to do with adding new tech to (at the time of its build) a nearly 30 year old design.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just saw one the other day into Toronto but it was the KLM Cargo version, not pax.

KLM 691 seems to be a passenger flight to Toronto that alternates between an MD-11 and an A330. KLM 31 ins another MD-11/A330 flight to Toronto.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I flew on a World Airways (former Delta) MD-11 back in 2006, and had a long chat with one of the pilots.  The short story is that it never met the fuel burn promises, which were already inferior to the 777 to begin with.  Twin jets are going to be the general preference because of the savings, except for routes where ETOPS is not possible, in my opinion.  I enjoyed the challenges of flying the MD-11 wiht the great PMDG version.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Also from what I hear from some pilots of the Md-11 it isn't a very good plane

 

I know it is twitchy in pitch, a PITA at cruise (VERY sensitive), and oscillates on approach, BUT finesse as a pilot should solve those.

 

Unfortunately MSFS is far too stable, especially in cruise. Flight controls have the same feeling at FL400 as they do at 1000 ft, which is totally wrong.

 

Best regards,

Robin.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The issue is that the Md-11 is basically a re-engined DC-10 with a glass cockpit so the basic design is nearly 50 years old. Aircraft design has come a long way in that time I recall hearing that the Md-11 has more drag on one wing then the 777 has on the entire airframe which means it burns alot more fuel. Also from what I hear from some pilots of the Md-11 it isn't a very good plane and I think that has to do with adding new tech to (at the time of its build) a nearly 30 year old design.

The MD80 was just a stretched DC-9 with new engines and modern avionics.  That was a massive success.  So the old airframe is not the problem.  At the time it was launched, the MD-11 predicted performance was very good.  Unfortunately it didn't perform as well as the predictions.  That was the problem, not the technology used, which was very advanced for its time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites