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ronnie.d

ATC Landing Instructions

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Hi guys,

 

Sorry if this question sounds a bit odd but I am fairly new to FSX and I have hardly acquired 10 - 15 hrs on PMDG 737 - 800 Winglet. Yesterday on my approach to EGNT runway 25, ATC (FSX default) gave me clearance to land, I was 2nd to land after a small aircraft (possibly a Cessna). There was barely 10 - 15 nm distance between my 737 and the Cessna and I was already on VREF Speed with speed breaks up and flaps 30. On final approach I suddenly realised that my 737 was moving a lot faster than the Cessna and I was about crash into it. I immediately took control and lowered my altitude and somehow managed to avoid the collision and landed before the other aircraft! After reaching the minimums ATC advised me to go around but it was too late so I landed before the Cessna regardless.

 

My question is have you ever come across this situation? How a pilot would handle this in real life? Who's fault was it as I couldn't reduce my speed further without losing lift.

 

Thanks in advance for your input.

 

Ronnie

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Happens all the time with FSX ATC. It doesnt take speed into account. It just puts all incoming aircraft in a line and hopes for the best. =P

 

in IRL. No idea. But Id think its ATC fault for not spacing enough. 

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I downloaded a utility called AI smooth here in the library I think. Check it out, it helps with this issue. Good luck Cpt out.

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IRL ATC provides separation (there's rules to it, but let's keep it simple). Why not try it out with PilotEdge/VATSIM/IVAO?

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IRL ATC provides separation (there's rules to it, but let's keep it simple). .....

+1

ATC would never put a jet in trail before a Cessna prop, in a manner to have a potential issue where the jet catches up to the Cessna. (Or at least they shouldn't, and if they did you would abort the landing). FSX ATC is unaware of these rules, so expect issues on approaches. However, FSX ATC is OK, given the above....

 

Thanks, Bruce.

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ATC would never put a jet in trail before a Cessna prop,

 

Actually, this did happen to me two weeks ago and a couple of months before that.

 

Those jets come up very fast and you need to keep the airspeed up until short final. I think I was doing 90knots and less than 100 feet above the ground before I started to slow down. We initially had about 8 miles between us and the tower did ask that we maintain contact and separation with each other, the jet landed not long after I started taxing.

 

On the other occasion, I was cleared to overfly the airport and downwind of the active when a jet was cleared to take the runway. They asked me "What type are you again?" and I knew exactly why they were asking as I answered 172. They advised each of us of the traffic, in my case they noted it would be at 6 o'clock would be climbing fast, and they cleared the jet for takeoff with an expedited turn to the east into the NYC Bravo.

 

As for the OP, ATC wouldn't clear two aircraft to land on the same runway. The ATC in the sim is not good at all.

 

While you are the final authority as to the safe operation of the aircraft, if RW ATC tells me to go around, I'm going to do my best to execute a go-around. In FSX I just ignore it too. :)

 

Good times! :P

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As a smaller aircraft, I have been asked to keep best forward speed. At a towered airport ATC is in charge of separation. Non towered-it could happen, but this is the reason to announce your position on ctaf.

 

In addition you may not overtake an aircraft in front of you. Forget the reg, but its there...

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My question is have you ever come across this situation? How a pilot would handle this in real life? Who's fault was it as I couldn't reduce my speed further without losing lift.

#1 As the others have stated, that is a quite common issue, have had similar situations, too.

#2 I am not a pilot, but I guess I'd tell ATC that the guy in front of me is too slow, and that I need to either get in front of him (if that is actually possible, but I doubt that) or I have to go around. Anyway, I do not think that this happnes to often in real life.

In the sim, I usually don't fly under ATC guideance for exactly these reasons, and if I do, I disregard every advice after I got my initial approach instructions.

#3 I am not really convinced that it is useful to comment on anybody's fault here, but since you asked: IMO it is both ATC's and your fault: ATC shouldn't have put you where they put you in the first place (but since that's artificial "intelligence", you can't really blame them for doing so), and you should have announced a go-around at least when you realized that you had no chance to land safely after the plane in front of you had exited the RWY.

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As you have noticed, the default ATC is absolutely crap. In fact, all of the automatic ATC programs are absolutely crap. They are basically toys. You could compare the quality of the default ATC with the quality of the default 737. The default 737 is a toy, it works nothing like the real plane, and any serious simmer would use something else like the PMDG instead. Same thing with ATC. I would recommend against using any of the ATC programs tho, they are horrible as well. But one thing I would recommend is flying online with real humans as ATC. ATC is far too complex and dynamic for a computer program to simulate properly, you need real humans. Online ATC isn't perfect either, there's always the issue with coverage, but I much prefer quality of quantity, so for me it's a no-contest. Online ATC completely crushes computerized ATC

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I appreciate you were asking about what would happen in real life but there are things you can do for make FSX a bit more realistic and avoid situations you'd never encounter in reality. 

 

Newcastle is probably a airport that does receive light aircraft but the default FSX AI traffic will also have Cessna's landing at Heathrow (who could afford the fees) and presumably JFK and Schipol too.

 

If I were you,  I'd do the following:

 

1) Download & install GA traffic from here: http://www.ultimatega.com/ which will give you decent biz jet type GA e.g. flying into Biggin Hill not Heathrow.

2) Edit the default FSX GA traffic BGL and delete all the biz jet flights

3) Edit the default FSX GA traffic BGL and delete all the Cessna, Beech flights etc going into or out of major airports (EGLL, EGKK, EGCC, EGBB etc and the main overseas equivalents you're likely to use).

 

At least then when you get this problem, it's half likely to be a real world one! 

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You have a lot of good suggestions to consider.   As with others, I also encounter the same situation, be it  with slower aircraft or insufficient separation between aircraft.  I use a TCAS (several free downloads, if you wish), and observe the aircraft (type, speed, direction & altitude) coming in to my destination.   So if ATC botches up their directions, I take it on myself to maintain separation (whether by speed or direction), so that I don't have to do a go around.  Not very realistic, but it gives me more to calculate and another challenge.

 

Chris

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That poor Cessna pilot... T_T    RIP.    I am sure your wake turbulence by buzz flying him on final ended his career with a whirl wind crash you speed demon!    :lol:    If this were real and I survived.  I would make it my goal in life to track down the ATC and the pilot of the Boeing and give them a serious talking to about not buzzing little prop jobs.

 

One of the worst real life wrecks in the western US happened kind of like what you described.   An MD-80 ran over a Cessna while in the landing pattern because of bad airspace procedures at the time.  The MD-80 went down in flames into a suburban neighborhood, killing everyone on board.  The Cessna student pilot and instructor were obliterated.

 

As for FSX, it happens.   I get AI traffic up in my face all the time when I am trying to land and have clearance.    Just last night I was cleared to land on Runway 08 at KABQ and at the same time Tower gave a King Air permission to takeoff... from the opposite end of the runway,  @_@   He buzzed me by a hundred feet as I was trying to stop down the runway.   Had to change my underpants.

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I guess if by chance you have a parallel runway you could side-step to the other runway. I think in real life, this is often used by ATC. Correct?

 

Regards,

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