Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

ICEWOLF378

T7 vs NGX

Recommended Posts

Ciao!

After using the new T7 it was very hard to fly my NGX again.From a heavier plane it is very hard to handle in approaches.Do you also think that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 


From a heavier plane it is very hard to handle in approaches.Do you also think that?

 

I think the T7 is harder to hand fly than the NGX unless I turn off the T7's FBW. Once that's off, its as easy to fly as the NGX in my opinion. When SP1 comes around and the FBW has been tweaked it seems to me that the T7 should be as easy to hand fly as the NGX, until then I just fly approaches with the primary flight computers turned off. 

Sean Campbell

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the T7 is harder to hand fly than the NGX unless I turn off the T7's FBW. Once that's off, its as easy to fly as the NGX in my opinion. When SP1 comes around and the FBW has been tweaked it seems to me that the T7 should be as easy to hand fly as the NGX, until then I just fly approaches with the primary flight computers turned off. 

 

Sean Campbell

I find the T7 easier to hand fly. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sort of, but not really. I once read a review somewhere where the PMDG 777 was described as "mechanically confident" and I think that's a good description of it. Its very methodical in its flight dynamics, and you have to be methodical when flying it. Maneuvers like turning or flaring need to be planned in advance. You can flare the NGX at 30ft and make a smooth touchdown. In my experience if you flare at 30ft in the 777, you'll have a harsh touchdown. The rate of pitch change is not as quick. If I flare at 50ft that usually will be a smooth touchdown in the 777. The same goes for offset localizers - the IGS13 approach into Kai Tak is easier for me to do in the 737 because it feels more maneuverable. Something about the 777 feels more stable and confident, but if you are too early or too late for the  lead-in lights and take a bad radius for the turn it is extremely hard to correct in the 777 because of the mere size of it. In the 737 there is some wiggle room for maneuvering.

 

It reminds me of the difference between long wheelbase cars and short wheelbase. A long wheelbase will feel more stable and is less likely to get squirrely or swap ends. In a short wheelbase car, there is better maneuverability and quicker change of direction, but it is not as stable and can spin more easily.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 


I find the T7 easier to hand fly.

 

Really, even with the flight computers turned on? When I am flying approached with the comps on it feels like the plane is working against me, rather than working for me. Kind of like it fighting every input I make. When I turn the comps off, then it feels like its very easy to fly, much like the NGX, and it trims out very nice with the comps off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I spent many hours flying the 737NGX.  I hated it and haven't flown it since the 777 came out.  Slowing down was a problem and I made a few short, hard landings on it.  I think the PMDG 777 is easier to hand fly in my opinion than the PMDG737.  I also struggled with the 737 on a full motion simulator, where the 767 and 747 were much easier for me to hand fly.  Go figure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ciao!

After using the new T7 it was very hard to fly my NGX again.From a heavier plane it is very hard to handle in approaches.Do you also think that?

 

The only thing that I constantly experience is that on disconnecting the autopilot at about 1000ft AGL, the aircraft is slightly out of trim and drops the nose. It is not significant, but something that isn't found in the NGX.

 

Same effect exists in the various Airbus addons, sometimes really pronounced. Seems to be a problem with implementing FBW in FSX.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I spent many hours flying the 737NGX.  I hated it and haven't flown it since the 777 came out.  Slowing down was a problem and I made a few short, hard landings on it.  I think the PMDG 777 is easier to hand fly in my opinion than the PMDG737.  I also struggled with the 737 on a full motion simulator, where the 767 and 747 were much easier for me to hand fly.  Go figure.

The 737ngx is really my favorite plane, but it does want to pick up speed on the decent. You really have to be on top of keeping the speed down with the 737. This is apparently the way the 737 is in reality as well. With the 777 its much easier to drop the speed and keep it down. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really enjoy flying both, and switch between them often. I find the 737 easier to fly, the various AP modes generally work as I anticipate, where the 777's automation takes some getting used to, particularly the autothrottle, which seems to have a mind of its own sometimes. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is there an option to turn off FBW?I also think that 777 is easier in ils apps but harder in vor apps like Nice(LFMN)

 

Fly by wire can’t be turned off, its integral to the design of the system. There is no mechanical linkage from yoke to hydraulics or control surfaces, the connection is electronic only. All yoke pressure on the real plane is simulated by servos. There is no way to restore a physical linkage to the hydraulics. It's always FBW. However, the flight computers that control envelope protection (among other things) can be disconnected by flipping a switch above the Battery/APU panel marked Primary Flight Computer. I'm pretty sure that this would only be done in real life if an emergency checklist required it. Turning off the flight computers during a normal approach might even get you reprimanded (or perhaps fired) at a real airline.

 

The interaction between FBW and PFC is somewhat complex. These links can explain things in more detail:

 

http://www.davi.ws/avionics/TheAvionicsHandbook_Cap_11.pdf

http://www2.cs.uidaho.edu/~krings/CS449/Notes.F09/449-09-27.pdf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you very much for detail information.

 

I was saying that T7 is easier in stable apps but I realized some problems in Latitude.My skill point drop down because of the lift off speed.When my VR was about 135 knots Latitude wants me to liftoff at 126.I am using 5 flaps in T7.Can it be the problem?Latitude also wants me to touchdown at 106 when my Vref is 137.

 

Thank You

Efe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the T7 is harder to hand fly than the NGX unless I turn off the T7's FBW. Once that's off, its as easy to fly as the NGX in my opinion. When SP1 comes around and the FBW has been tweaked it seems to me that the T7 should be as easy to hand fly as the NGX, until then I just fly approaches with the primary flight computers turned off. 

 

Sean Campbell

 

In the real life sims at least the 777 was *far* easier to fly by hand than the NG.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you very much for detail information.

I was saying that T7 is easier in stable apps but I realized some problems in Latitude.My skill point drop down because of the lift off speed.When my VR was about 135 knots Latitude wants me to liftoff at 126.I am using 5 flaps in T7.Can it be the problem?Latitude also wants me to touchdown at 106 when my Vref is 137.

Thank You
Efe

 

 

I’m not sure how Latitude is calculating those numbers, but they are insane. V2 is closer to lift off speed and I typically see v2 speeds about 140kts or above. 126kts seems kind of crazy, perhaps impossible, and definitely dangerous. And the touchdown speed of 106 is in stall territory, that’s bonkers. I would personally turn off Latitude and stick to whatever you see in the FMC.

 

Ultimately you are the best judge of your piloting. If you make a harsh landing you know it and more importantly why. Maybe you flared too late, maybe you cut throttles too early, maybe you rushed it in after passing the touchdown point too high. Latitude, even if it did work correctly, can’t tell you these things, but you know it yourself by evaluating your own performance. Maybe a smooth landing is not even preferential sometimes, like on a short runway surrounded by rough terrain in icing conditions. In that case, it would be prudent to land at Vref+ice, put it down firmly in the touchdown zone, and have plenty of runway to get stopped - as opposed to dangling above stall speed to attempt a feather-light touchdown in dangerous conditions with slick runways. My point is that you are the best judge of your actions, and whether or not they are correct for the conditions. Don’t take guff from any back-seat pilot software.  :wink:  (Especially if its giving you V numbers better fit for a turbo prop)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was saying that T7 is easier in stable apps but I realized some problems in Latitude.My skill point drop down because of the lift off speed.When my VR was about 135 knots Latitude wants me to liftoff at 126.I am using 5 flaps in T7.Can it be the problem?Latitude also wants me to touchdown at 106 when my Vref is 137.

 

 

Hi, Efe,

 

As Ethan said, the numbers Latitude is coming up with are very far off.  Even 135 for VR seems very low to me, unless the plane has almost no passengers or cargo, and only enough fuel for a very short flight.  A fully loaded aircraft should be more in the 170+ range.    Flaps 5 is fine; I have taken off many times heavily loaded at that setting -- as long as the runway is long enough (12-13000 ft or more).    An approach speed of 106 is what the British Airways 777-200ER was at when its engines failed on approach to London Heathrow just before it stalled, and it didn't quite make it to the runway!  I suggest that you trust the takeoff and approach speeds displayed in the CDU -- PMDG has put a good deal of effort into getting them right.  

 

Mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

I would be interested on comparing the flight feeling of PMDG 777 vs Level D 767.

 

I only own the 737NGX and in the past I flown Level D 767 and, despite the age, it was smoother than smaller planes because it was " big ". I assume that PMDG 777 should be smoother than the NGX  just because  bigger planes should be more gentle to maneuver than smaller ones.

 

To make an exaggerate comparison, it should be like flying a Red Bull acrobatic plane vs a fully loaded 747 cargo   :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would be interested on comparing the flight feeling of PMDG 777 vs Level D 767.

 

I only own the 737NGX and in the past I flown Level D 767 and, despite the age, it was smoother than smaller planes because it was " big ". I assume that PMDG 777 should be smoother than the NGX  just because  bigger planes should be more gentle to maneuver than smaller ones.

 

To make an exaggerate comparison, it should be like flying a Red Bull acrobatic plane vs a fully loaded 747 cargo   :P

 

With FBW, hand flying should be as smooth as it gets.  That is if you're familiar with FBW from other add ons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

I’m not sure how Latitude is calculating those numbers, but they are insane. V2 is closer to lift off speed and I typically see v2 speeds about 140kts or above. 126kts seems kind of crazy, perhaps impossible, and definitely dangerous. And the touchdown speed of 106 is in stall territory, that’s bonkers. I would personally turn off Latitude and stick to whatever you see in the FMC.

 

Ultimately you are the best judge of your piloting. If you make a harsh landing you know it and more importantly why. Maybe you flared too late, maybe you cut throttles too early, maybe you rushed it in after passing the touchdown point too high. Latitude, even if it did work correctly, can’t tell you these things, but you know it yourself by evaluating your own performance. Maybe a smooth landing is not even preferential sometimes, like on a short runway surrounded by rough terrain in icing conditions. In that case, it would be prudent to land at Vref+ice, put it down firmly in the touchdown zone, and have plenty of runway to get stopped - as opposed to dangling above stall speed to attempt a feather-light touchdown in dangerous conditions with slick runways. My point is that you are the best judge of your actions, and whether or not they are correct for the conditions. Don’t take guff from any back-seat pilot software. :wink: (Especially if its giving you V numbers better fit for a turbo prop)

Thank you for these infos.They are very helpful for me and also Mark777 was very heplful but I couldn't do two quotes in one mesaage.

 

Efe

Sorry again he was Mike777

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my not so professional opinion, it is akin to comparing apples with oranges. They may share the same Boeing company logo and have two wings and two engines, but similarities between these two aircraft pretty much end there...

 

A

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When I first tried hand flying the T7 on an approach, I crashed. I crashed on my second attempt as well. I got it on my third attempt. I think my problem was that it seems to respond slower to inputs than the NGX which seems reasonable as its a bigger plane. Once I got over that, it does seem easier to fly than the NGX. It really does climb like a bat out of hell though  B)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

@ Groovin : I know that FBW renders the column easy to use, I was analysing and comparing it to a 18 wheels big truck, you have the power assisted steering but in takes a while to maneuver.

 

@ Aentwis : I agree, in fact I asked about an opinion between the T7 and Level D 767.

 

@ SirStiggie : How comes that a slower response leads to a crash ? It must be something else in the ingredient of a crash, don't you agree ? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 


It must be something else in the ingredient of a crash, don't you agree ?

 

Like not being ahead of the plane? :wink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@ SirStiggie : How comes that a slower response leads to a crash ? It must be something else in the ingredient of a crash, don't you agree ? 

 

I agree. That was my first attempt at landing the T7 without reading any manuals or doing the tutorial flights and I simply screwed the approach trying to fly it like the NGX. Pretty much what happened is that it got too slow and I tried to catch up with too much throttle. The chief pilot was not amused.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

after using the T7 for about a  couple of months. i tried to handfly the NGX. i think its hard to handly the NGX cause its too light compare to the T7 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Spent countless hours in the NGX, but I have done what I never thought I would do, I uninstalled it.

The 777 is so good to hand fly I alway hand fly right upto cruise. You just think ahead and always be smooth with her. Speed is what she like you to stablize.

I also love that I don't feel I need fscew2 to fly the 777 well. Because it's far more automated I feel the work load is perfect.

I love 777.

I think I will love the 747v2 just as much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...