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MarkVcz

First long-haul on VATSIM. Did not end well. DX10 time!

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So over the last weekend I finally decided to go for a long-haul flight on VATSIM with 777. I had an amazing ATC coverage throughout the flight from Gatwick (UK2000) and Dubai (FlyTampa). The same day I also upgraded to Active Sky Next with phenomenal results.. seriously.. what a great weather injector!

 

7-hour flight went really well.. everything running silky smooth, fun Saturday VATSIM trafic all around Europe.. umm, until I hit the STAR into Dubai. Yep. OOM. Never have I ever seen an OOM before. Well the first time always kinda sucks. I did not check the memory consumption during the flight as I did a EGKK - OMDB flight few days before without a problem but with time acceleration and without VATSIM traffic.

 

I don't really have a hight-end super-machine but I'm fine now with frame-rates and tweaked CFG.. My ultimate goal for long haul flights is to run two add-on airports (EGKK and OMDB), UTX, GEX in Europe, Active Sky's 1024px textures, dense autogen, high mesh resolution and PMDG 777. Not a impossible thing to do I think. People fly these routes with add-on airports daily and without problems.

 

DirectX 10 time! Holidays are almost here.. that means some free time to play around and experiment. I will finally start working on the DX9 -> DX10 switch. I believe due to better memory management in DX10 I might be actually getting somewhere.. most of the DX10 texture issues (airports/planes) are worked out and the development and support in this regard is still going strong. There is even a chance for slightly better frame-rates and I guess a little visual overhaul .. well that might be a little bonus.

 

I really want to follow up you guys with the development of my own switch to DX10. Maybe more people will soon give DX10 within FSX a shot. I'm planning to benchmark the process on my not-really-new PC if I can get some great results to share with you guys. I will be really focusing on the PMDG 777 only as this is a 777 sub-forum and I really want to get this awesome plane running at its best. And I heard lot of great things about the (limited) DX10 preview in the last weeks..

 

I'm doing lot of FSX's DX10 research myself but if we do have a people here that fly the triple 7 and successfully switched to DX10, maybe you can share some KEY pieces of information that I might miss while switching..

 

Can't wait to follow up. I hope this ends well - with happy, great looking long haul flying on VATSIM without OOMs!

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Go for it Mark, you'll never look back!  Looking forward to reading about your progress.  

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Go for it Mark, you'll never look back! Looking forward to reading about your progress.

Yeah! Will definitely share my progress.. I'm really positive about this. :)

 

Is that really reducing VAS usage, though?

I would not say it's reducing VAS usage per se. The DX10 Direct 3D renderer's memory resource manager (buffer, objects/texture memory..) is definitely updated (not sure if completely rewritten) to be more efficient with releasing the memory (textures, geometry etc.) after you render out the something (buildings, land..) and move on to different place (It sort of works in DX9 world.. but as we all know the memory management got it's huge flaws.. apart from the 4GB limit..). It's not perfect (still 32bit architecture under FSX) but it should definitely be (big or small) step up from DX9 as far as working with memory - that means the probability of hitting the 4GB ceiling on longer flights is smaller.

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It's not perfect (still 32bit architecture under FSX) but it should definitely be (big or small) step up from DX9 as far as working with memory - that means the probability of hitting the 4GB ceiling on longer flights is smaller.

 

Interesting.  Thanks for the explanation!

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Hi Marek,

 

I will be following your progress, around February hopefully I will be in a position to start flying the T7 longhaul, my setup is almost identical to yours except a Titan.

 

Only addons I will run is the PMDG 777, FTX global, full global mesh,REX clouds, ASN & and a select few airports that Aerologic operate into.

 

Would not be happy with an OOM after 7 hours ;) until PMDG are P3D ready it looks like DX10 is the way to go!

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Until PMDG are P3D ready it looks like DX10 is the way to go!

I feel the same, but the chance of PMDG going into P3D with current LM's licensing at this point is really small.. as far as I heard. With the development around the DX10 fixer (huge kudos to Steve!!), I feel like we are still able to push 32bit FSX even little further into the future..

 

EDIT: I take the PMDG part back. I totally forgot about the update from PMDG about their P3D releases. It's coming!

read it here: http://forum.avsim.net/topic/426978-pmdgs-p3d-development-status-fact-thread-updated-25nov13/

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Only addons I will run is the PMDG 777, FTX global, full global mesh,REX clouds, ASN & and a select few airports that Aerologic operate into.

 

I ran a GEC route from IAD to FRA a little while ago and got the OOM Warning when I touched in FRA. (6:49 block)

The flight before that, I did an IAD-MIA turn and got the warning on downwind. (4:26 block)

 

I run FTX Global, plus regional mesh (deactivated when not in the areas, though, so wasn't a factor in the above scenarios), 1024 textures from AS2012 (similar to REX, I'd imagine), ASN, FlightBeam's IAD, LatinVFR MIA, and nothing at FRA other than an AFCAD.

 

In between the flights, I stepped the mesh resolution back slightly.  Looks like I need to keep looking for ways to lower the VAS use.

 

 

I feel the same, but the chance of PMDG going into P3D with current LM's licensing at this point is really small.. as far as I heard. With the development around the DX10 fixer (huge kudos to Steve!!) , I feel like we are still able to push 32bit FSX even little further into the future..

 

...and this is why I always stress that people read for themselves:

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/426978-pmdgs-p3d-development-status-fact-thread-updated-25nov13/

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DX10 helps and I use the fixer on my setup, however, it is not a panacea.   This weekend I had an OOM when flying ConcordeX and on short final at KJFK (FSDT KFJK V2).  

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What are your opinions on UTX? I bought the whole lot a year back but I'm thinking of keeping uninstalled when I go longhaul

 

Edit - I mean opinions in the context of causing OOMS, I remember Ultimate terrain causing problems with FS9 until I got a fast machine with Win7 64 bit

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This weekend I had an OOM when flying ConcordeX and on short final at KJFK (FSDT KFJK V2).

 

I had an OOM simply trying to bludgeon the thing into doing something it's not meant to do (force it to accept a position other than the true initial location), and then navigate using that translated position.  I then ended up trying to loop the thing in resignation, which sent it off into a dimension of [irritated] that the poor thing had never seen in its life, so it started doing backflips.  I'm sure that consumed a decent amount of memory, but I was getting the OOM ding with only a half hour of tinkering and 15 min of flight time.

 

(FTX Global + LatinVFR MIA + add-ons mentioned above, but clear weather)

 

 

 


Oh! I totally forgot about this update since they posted this! I take it back of course..
That's what I get for typing while doing three other things.. :)

 

haha - it happens.

 

 

What are your opinions on GEX? I bought the whole lot a year back but I'm thinking of keeping uninstalled when I go longhaul

Edit - I mean opinions in the context of causing OOMS, I remember Ground environment causing problems with FS9 until I got a fast machine with Win7 64 bit

 

I had GEX prior to my reformat, and used UTX with GEX for North America and really liked it.  I then tried to install UTX+GEX Europe on (what I found out later was) an old version of NA.  That caused all sorts of weird scenery issues, which only got worse when I tried to fix, and later uninstall them.  I then decided to reformat my FSX drive and start fresh, which has worked out nicely so far, apart from my use of much higher settings this time around (which is a partial cause of my OOMs, obviously).

 

As nice as they were, the global coverage of FTX Global was attractive, and didn't necessarily require UTX or GEX (though I think they're compatible).  I'm have a feeling certain cities/roads would be more accurate with UTX, but FTX Global has been good enough, even for my VFR flying tastes.

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Sorry Kyle, I edited my post, I meant UTX not GEX :)

 

GEX is just textures, we shouldn't need it with FTX global, UTX is the land class stuff that can cause issues.

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What are your opinions on UTX? I bought the whole lot a year back but I'm thinking of keeping uninstalled when I go longhaul

Edit - I mean opinions in the context of causing OOMS, I remember Ultimate terrain causing problems with FS9 until I got a fast machine with Win7 64 bit

Did not test UTX as far as memory and OOMs yet. It sure is a memory hit of some sort but for me it's really an add-on that I definitely need to work with (at least before upgrading to something else.. FTX's landcass?) while trying to stay away from OOMs under DX10.

As nice as they were, the global coverage of FTX Global was attractive ..... but FTX Global has been good enough, even for my VFR flying tastes.

FTX Global sure looks really nice (I'm not sure about the VAS memory requirements) and especially when flying lower altitudes (and flying all around the world), I'd say it's definitely better choice for VFR. I fly IFR most of the time (around Europe and now trying ME) so GEX and UTX Europe are totally fine with me while cruising at FL370 above cloudy Europe. Maybe after Christmas I'll look into FTX Global and their land mesh but the financial priorities are.. well... somewhere else on December 17th heh (dang, about time to buy some presents!).

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Awful framerates on the ground... it shouldn't be something to show off.

Actually I was thinking the same thing. Hoping it was fraps? This is why I have tried to avoid FSX and wait for P3D... I just can't go back to rubbish FPS

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Awful framerates on the ground... it shouldn't be something to show off.

Yeah. It might be FRAPS though... but not exactly an "awesome" video to show off DX10  ^_^ I'm really hoping for way better frame rates from DX10.. 

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I have been on DX10 for 6 month or so and my fps is the same with my GTX780SC but it was higher with my HD 7970GHZ vs dx9. Really hard to get OOM and good performance makes it my choice with everything else but the NGX because i have a CDUII and undocking panels in DX10 is a problem on my system (fps repeating jumps up and down in a pattern)

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Since Steve released his DX10 fixer, he's probably got himself a better rig than the one he did the demo on...

 

I've been running DX10 for a couple of months now, via the fixer, and never looked back.

Improved frame rates all-round. On the ground at a demanding airport, circa 18-24 FPS in the 777.

At less demanding locations, get between 28-40+ FPS.

 

The other thing about DX10 is that you can ramp the sliders up almost with impunity, with only marginal loss of frames. It seems to enable FSX to handle autogen scenery and AI traffic much better. Also, there seems to be no FPS hit with lightbloom enabled.

 

DX10 looks a treat, too.

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Hi MarkVcz,

 

I had almost the exact same thing happening with the 777 flying from EGBB to OMDB Birmingham to Dubai, either got the OOM on approach, touchdown or even once taxing to the gate. I run GEX, UTX and REX too, and never had an issue with my MD11 or 747 on long haul flights, and never got any OOM's!

 

After reading the posts here about DX10 I flicked the switch and tried a couple of flights, just to see, saw the odd texture issue but then decided it was worth buying "Steve's Scenery Fixer" which solved all my texture issues. I've been using DX10 for a few months now and have to say it's brilliant.

 

OK my fps aren't huge high teens to low twenties but fsx is silky smooth, which is what counts in my book. And those sun sets are to die for now! Anyway no more OOM's and last weekend flew Heathrow to San Francisco and San Francisco to Philadelphia both with real world weather and the 777 and no OOM's. 

 

I really do think DX10 is a step forward in keeping fsx alive, and I'm sure you won't be disappointed when you switch. It took me about 15mins to set up the scenery fixer when I bought it, it's really easy to do! 

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I don't think we should have to do all this switching to DX10 just to use the B777. My system runs just fine with every other add on and aircraft i own.

Just think of the additional time spent mucking around tweaking FSX again and the cost involved here just to use this one aircraft.

If that's not a consideration to anyone else here then good luck to you.

While I like the aircraft itself, I simply don't believe it's worth buying additional programmes and re tuning FSX just to run one aircraft. That's crazy.

If I can't fly in and out of major add on airports on long haul flights with some weather as well, then whats the point of it all?

I will stick with the PMDG B737 and Majestic Q400 where I get no issues at all in heavy wx, night time etc.

Until PMDG address and improve the VAS issue which they conveniently wash their hands of and say they won't be doing anything about it, I unfortunately wont be adding the 300ER or any new product of theirs (as its not likely to get any better) to my fleet. Not meant as a threat to PMDG just a reality of the situation.

Cheers Barra

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Sorry Kyle, I edited my post, I meant UTX not GEX :)

 

GEX is just textures, we shouldn't need it with FTX global, UTX is the land class stuff that can cause issues.

 

I have UTX USA with FTX Global into FSDT and/or LatinVFR airports without any issues.  As you'd imagine the VAS usage with the T7 into those airports it starts to get quite low, and even FSUIPC starts dinging on certain occasions - primarily based on what kind of weather I'm landing in.  I, however, have never had FSX crash due to an OOM though.

 

I use LOD Radius of 5.0 but what I have found lately is that going into Spot view seems to take a lot of VAS.  When I'm starting to approach airports and worried about VAS I do not go outside the cockpit for that reason.  I've seen going into Spot view take 100MB of VAS in of itself.

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I see lot of positive feedback about DX10 here. That's cool!

 

I had almost the exact same thing happening with the 777 flying from EGBB to OMDB... I've been using DX10 for a few months now and have to say it's brilliant.

 

... OK my fps aren't huge high teens to low twenties but fsx is silky smooth, which is what counts in my book. And those sun sets are to die for now! Anyway no more OOM's and last weekend flew Heathrow to San Francisco..

 

^ THIS. Thanks man! Excatly what I'm expecting from my DX10 switch! I'll try to tune it as much as possible (but definitely not to the point of spending more time tweaking than flying..) but ideally.. no OOMs, smooth rendering (no tearing) is what counts in my book..

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A side note to add. Remember that all your fleet is taking up some memory . Its not just scenery that is loaded when you start FSX. 

 

So by adding the 777-300ER i might considering un-installing some other payware. 

 

Using only your takeoff, landing,ETOPS Scenery is always good for keeping memory as low as possible. It can be frustrating landing with VAS close to 4GB in stutter and low FPS . VAS close to 4GB is a FPS killer

 

And remember to save your longhauls on the go

 

Did EGLL-EHAM (short flight)yesterday in DX10 with Dense settings and FPS was smooth 25-40fps all the time unlimited with UTII at 25%. FTXG+UK2000,Aerosoft at night. 

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