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tango4

Request for PMDG: List of items NOT SIMULATED (NGX and 777)

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Hi everyone and especially PMDG team.

I think everything is in the title. For years, when browsing through a forum, you would see people answer to a newcomer "it's in the manual, go read it !". And that is definitely true.

The problem is that from the NGX onwards, realism is now very high, so high that the NGX and 777 are provided with the real FCOM.

So here comes my problem, some things are not simulated in those planes, but this is not clearly mentioned in the documentation.

Of course, for some items, it is obvious (EFB for example), but for others it is much more hidden.

I remember losing several hours wondering why in case fo engine failure at or above V1, the VNAV mode did not provide engine failure guidance although the version of the FMC simulated in the NGX was supposed to. Well, I decided to ask in this forum and guess what, not simulated ! But his is not mentioned in the manuals.

 

So I know this is not the way a company usually advertises, but in this case, I really think it would be helpul if we could have such a list in the documentation, updated according to the various service packs.

 

Here is my list for the NGX (I'm not yet familiar with the 777 to write one on my own).

 

-Weather Radar

-EFB

-Emergency gear release handles

-FMC: *Engine out VNAV guidance

           *RTA (Required Time of Arrival

           *ISA Dev in descent forecast

-Autoflight: A/T impossible to re engage after engine failure (Bug ??)

 

Am I forgetting things ?

 

Best regards to everyone and huge thanks to the PMDG team for providing us with such quality add ons.

 

UPDATED LIST:

 

-Weather Radar

-EFB

-Emergency gear release handles

-FMC: *Engine out VNAV guidance

           *RTA (Required Time of Arrival

           *ISA Dev in descent forecast

-Autoflight: A/T impossible to re engage after engine failure (Bug ??)

-Maintenance pages of the FMC
-Circuit breakers
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I doubt an EFB will happen. 

 

WX radar will be ported to the NGX according to RSR himself. Just not certain when.

 

I swear ISA dev is already in the descent forecast page of the NGX

 

RTA could be possible, maybe in the next SP if they decide.

 

The rest I wont comment because I'm not sure if they exist on the plane so I'll end it there.

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Pretty sure I was doing single engine Autoland's with A/T on a few months back.   ENGINE out SID - you can build & activate on the secondary flight plan.  I think in order for an automated function to work we first need the data from the NAV database providers.

 

ISA DEV is something I really miss from Airbus, you have it displayed on the ECAM during climb & descent.

 

Regards

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First PMDG please accept my apologies for multiple posts, I kept having an error in my navigator, and thought my post wasn't online. If an admin could delete the other posts below that would be great (really sorry !!)

 

 

I doubt an EFB will happen. 

 

WX radar will be ported to the NGX according to RSR himself. Just not certain when.

 

I swear ISA dev is already in the descent forecast page of the NGX

 

RTA could be possible, maybe in the next SP if they decide.

 

The rest I wont comment because I'm not sure if they exist on the plane so I'll end it there.

 

ISA Dev appears and can be entered but I read somewhere that it is not taken into account  for descent calculations.

 

Pretty sure I was doing single engine Autoland's with A/T on a few months back.   ENGINE out SID - you can build & activate on the secondary flight plan.  I think in order for an automated function to work we first need the data from the NAV database providers.

 

ISA DEV is something I really miss from Airbus, you have it displayed on the ECAM during climb & descent.

 

Regards

I will check agains for auto thrust, but I'm pretty sure I can't re engage it after engine failure (I'mm talking of the NGX).

And I was not talking about engine out SID, but VNAV guidance (having the aircraft accelerate at engine out altitude that you enter in take off ref page 2).

 

Charles

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My wishlist for an 'realism-upgrade' of the great PMDG products is the following:

 

- Maintenance based items such as a real Maintenance menu in de FMS.

- Circuit Breakers.

- MAT ('Maintenance Access Terminal').

 

Seriously, I HOPE PMDG will take a look to all our comments. It's not do downsize the quality and realism level of PMDG, it's to 'upsize' the level from great to more great. ^_^

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My wishlist for an 'realism-upgrade' of the great PMDG products is the following:

 

- Maintenance based items such as a real Maintenance menu in de FMS.

- Circuit Breakers.

- MAT ('Maintenance Access Terminal').

 

Seriously, I HOPE PMDG will take a look to all our comments. It's not do downsize the quality and realism level of PMDG, it's to 'upsize' the level from great to more great. ^_^

Also, failures that trigger at what speed during the takeoff phase? I'd much prefer that than having to time engine fires/failures with my takeoff. 

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All I want for the NGX are the ground roll sounds from the 777 and the Overhead panel and glareshield position height to be fixed. 

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Also, failures that trigger at what speed during the takeoff phase? I'd much prefer that than having to time engine fires/failures with my takeoff. 

 

It is quite easy to program engine failures for specific stages of flight (including VR and V2) did you know that or want help in programming it?

 

Alex

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Just to clarify the intent of my post, this is not meant to be a WISHLIST, but a list of what is not simulated in order to avoid confusion.

I'll try to update the list at the bottom of my first post according to replies.

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It is quite easy to program engine failures for specific stages of flight (including VR and V2) did you know that or want help in programming it?


Really? Never saw any options in the CDU. I just timed my first takeoff at when V1, VR and V2 was, and then keyed in the numbers and took off in the exact same conditions. And yes, any help would be great. That'd mean less time preparing a practice flight and more time to actually do it  :lol:

Just to clarify the intent of my post, this is not meant to be a WISHLIST, but a list of what is not simulated in order to avoid confusion.

I'll try to update the list at the bottom of my first post according to replies.

Oops... Sorry to hijack your thread there buddy  :P

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Really? Never saw any options in the CDU. I just timed my first takeoff at when V1, VR and V2 was, and then keyed in the numbers and took off in the exact same conditions. And yes, any help would be great. That'd mean less time preparing a practice flight and more time to actually do it  :lol:

Oops... Sorry to hijack your thread there buddy  :P

 

 

in the FMC, go to failures, programmed you can select engine failures at VR etc. PM if you get stuck (we're high jacking the topic)

 

Alex

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in the FMC, go to failures, programmed you can select engine failures at VR etc. PM if you get stuck (we're high jacking the topic)


Doesn't seem to be any for engine fire though.. Oh well  :lol: Any more questions I have I'll PM you later. I'm gonna do some snooping around in the failure pages of the cdu now. (Only starting to utilize the failure simulation in the NGX) 

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You really need them to point out that circuit breakers aren't fully modelled?

The flight crew never messes with them anyway...that's a job for maintenance.

 

Also, the introduction PDF on both the ngx and 777 give an overview of all the systems without need to read every page of the fcoms.

 

Not really getting the point of your request.

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I know !!!

The point of my request is not getting an overview of the systems. It is avoiding spending hours figuring something out which I think is simulated while it is in fact not simulated.

I did not mention the circuit breakers in my first post initially because I would count this as obvious (as Wx radar and EFB). I only added it to try and make a COMPLETE list of what is not simulated.

And I am not complaining about anything here !!! I know breakers are not used by a flight crew on day to day operations. But I really spent time trying to understand the behaviour of Engine out VNAV and I was thinking that I was missing something. While the thing I was missing was that it is not simulated and it was not written anywhere that I know of.

So please everyone stop telling me that we'll get a weather radar and not an efb. I am aware of that and it is not the point of my post.

I just want to know if there are other functions of the plane not simulated that I might find in the FCOM or QRH.

 

Cheers.

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All I want for the NGX are the ground roll sounds from the 777 and the Overhead panel and glareshield position height to be fixed.

+1, can't understand why such an error wouldn't be fixed after 3 years.

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+1, can't understand why such an error wouldn't be fixed after 3 years.

Well they are kind of busy, but yes I do agree. The NGX is perfect thats all thats wrong with it for me. 

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I don't think the forward toilets flush but I would need to check. And the cover on the oil inspection access doesn't seem to open, or maybe I missed the click spot.

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The flight crew never messes with them anyway...that's a job for maintenance.

 

Yeah, well.. sometimes you have to. Usually when trying to get some computer to work at an outstation, but from time to time, you have to, for reasons. Like that LOT 767, they pulled CB as part of abnormals for HUD failure, I think? Ended up having to belly land.

 

 

 


So I know this is not the way a company usually advertises, but in this case, I really think it would be helpul if we could have such a list in the documentation, updated according to the various service packs.

Am I forgetting things ?

 

There is not full ARINC424 routing capability as of now, since the navigation data format does not allow for that (RF legs were a big topic on the forum for a while). Some other things stem from data format, EOSID absence being one of those.

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Well they are kind of busy, but yes I do agree. The NGX is perfect thats all thats wrong with it for me. 

having 3d modeled myself another well known addon co i understand that to fix the vc dimensions mentioned here  would be no small task believe me.there is a significant amount of inaccuracy there

 

 

kav

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Getting ARINC424 is too much of a workload even for PMDG. They have said they will consider someday, but I don't think it's going to be any time near.

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I just want to know if there are other functions of the plane not simulated that I might find in the FCOM or QRH.

 

I appreciate your frustration but I also think I see the source. To generate a list of everything that is NOT in the simulation is, I'm sure, quite a task. My thought is that PMDG has described everything that is in the simulation and that, if they haven't described a function, then it's probably not there. Asking about a specific issue, such as engine out VNAV, seems a good topic starter. Believe me I am not trying to be condescending here, just sharing my perspective.

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I appreciate your frustration but I also think I see the source. To generate a list of everything that is NOT in the simulation is, I'm sure, quite a task. My thought is that PMDG has described everything that is in the simulation and that, if they haven't described a function, then it's probably not there. Asking about a specific issue, such as engine out VNAV, seems a good topic starter. Believe me I am not trying to be condescending here, just sharing my perspective.

Thanks for your kind reply.

Actually, my frustration comes from two points:

1) Some items were simulated in previous PMDG products. Emergency release gear handles were simulated in the MD11 if I remember correctly. So I expected them to be in the NGX. I AM NOT SAYING IT IS A BIG DEAL , just saying that I spent some time looking for a click spot that did not exist. Much easier if it was clearly written in the tuorial.

2)In former documentations, the rule of thumb was, if it is not mentioned, it is not simulated, basically. The problem is that now we have the FCOM, and it is hard to find those little things being left out. In the 777 intro document, there is a very interesting part mentioning "things you would not otherwise notice". I just think it would have been great to get a short list of items not simulated.

 

And once again, this is not a feature request list. I too would like better rollout sound, rain effects and so on but this is not my point with this post.

 

There is not full ARINC424 routing capability as of now, since the navigation data format does not allow for that (RF legs were a big topic on the forum for a while). Some other things stem from data format, EOSID absence being one of those.

I'll try to add it to the list but I can't edit my first post and I don't understand why... Trying to figure that out.

 

Thanks for all your replies.

Well at least here is the updated list.

If I manage to do it I will update my first post. But it seems I did not miss many things.

 

UPDATED LIST:

 

-Weather Radar

-EFB

-Emergency gear release handles

-FMC: *Engine out VNAV guidance

           *RTA (Required Time of Arrival)

           *ISA Dev in descent forecast (possible to enter but not taken into account in descent profile calculations)

           *ARINC 424 routing

          *EOSID

-Autoflight: A/T impossible to re engage after engine failure (Bug ??)

-Maintenance pages of the FMC
-Circuit breakers
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All I want for the NGX are the ground roll sounds from the 777 and the Overhead panel and glareshield position height to be fixed. 

 

 

same here the Overhead in the 737 is way way way too high.

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My wishlist for an 'realism-upgrade' of the great PMDG products is the following:

 

- Maintenance based items such as a real Maintenance menu in de FMS.

- Circuit Breakers.

- MAT ('Maintenance Access Terminal').

 

Seriously, I HOPE PMDG will take a look to all our comments. It's not do downsize the quality and realism level of PMDG, it's to 'upsize' the level from great to more great. ^_^

 

This is not going to happen. Airlines have entire departments devoted to maintenance servicing for large jet aircraft - it is not something pilots get out and do before/after every flight like with a GA aircraft. It happens in the middle of the night in a huge hangar and happens relatively infrequently compared to the flight hours these airplanes accumulate. Pilots do not bring up maintenance terminals or pages in the FMC - it's just not done.

 

Circuit breakers - no way, adds a ridiculous amount of complexity to the programming for very little tangible value to the product - even in abnormal situations you aren't going to be pulling breakers on a modern jet unless it's something maintenance specifically instructs you to do over a satcom call.

 

Our goal here is to simulate the normal and some of the abnormal *flight operations* of an aircraft to a reasonable degree, not to simulate everything that ever possibly happens to a real aircraft.

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having 3d modeled myself another well known addon co i understand that to fix the vc dimensions mentioned here  would be no small task believe me.there is a significant amount of inaccuracy there

 

 

kav

 

I have no doubt that it's not an easy fix, and I understand the workload for PMDG is immense (especially after a new release such as the T7).  I'm just hoping they don't continue moving forward with the cycle of new products, followed by new service packs, all the while leaving the NGX in the rear view.  At the rate PMDG moves forward, I have to wonder if they'll ever find the time to go back to the NGX.  They're the upper echelon of FS developers, and it seems strange to leave such an error after 3 years.  It just isn't something one would expect from PMDG, that's all.  

 

Regardless, it does NOT keep me from enjoying the NGX, it's still a masterpiece, and one in which I'll fly for many years to come. 

 

I've said it many times, but we're a lucky bunch to have developers like PMDG creating such detailed products, and for that I'll be forever grateful.

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