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Sesquashtoo

Has LM, hit the wall, as far as P3D.x coding is concerned?

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I wondered that last night, as I was doing a virgin rebuild of P3D v2.3

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The reasons (after using v2.4 for almost 20 hours, tweaking this..trying that...etc..) that I removed it from my system are the following:

 

1. A deteriorated graphic depiction, pixelated, granular, a huge step back in the progression of texture and graphic clarity. No amount of processing, or driver feature sets, could take away the harsh, granular ground textures. Nothing.

 

2. The fish-bowl depiction of the sky....as it wrapped around you, almost like how the Star Trek series depicted a warp field.  Nothing could alleviate this camera view. Simply horrible to this user.

 

3. Shadows...were not much better in the terrain department.

 

I think that LM most likely has hit the wall, as far as driving a decades-old graphic engine.  You try to fix something..and break something else. You task the Microsoft Graphics Engine to the limit...and the 'limit' shows itself.  I am grateful, that v2.3 was created. Yes...there is a terrain-shadow bug in the version...but...everything else (and were we all not most delighted in the first few minutes of flight with this version...it was over-the-top, received by the P3D community...and rightly so...) is very much wonderful:

 

1. As smooth a performance as can be had with this dated tech...the coding thereof.

2. Beautifully rendered graphics from current high-end cards, and textures, smooth as butter.

3. It works...and is a very stable version. Even..if taxed with 3rdP add-ons.

 

So...I want quality..visuals...features...before I need the latest rendition of something.  Therefore, I uninstalled v2.4 as non-suitable for my flight simming standards and requirements.  Thankfully...v2.3 is!

I want (who knows...this (v2.3) could be the last good version of this series...until they totally rewrite their engine code..and move perhaps to a modern 64 bit platform and base....who knows...?) this installation to be picture-perfect...soooooooooooo,  I am spending the day, after a full virgin installation of v2.3 (no baggage (files..etc..) from prior installations...) to build up my 3rdP add-ons...and that will be that. I will enjoy great graphics, sky and land...smooth-as-the-series-can-be FPS performance 30+...and will be content to have this as my P3D standard.

 

If any of you reading, also feel you were better off in the P3D world, with the prior version, I do have a suggestion for you:

 

Totally remove v2.4 and use Rob's four address strings to find all folders, and DELETE them.  Delete everything you find in them. You are going to start in a 'clean-room' state.  After you uninstall v2.4, using the full installer program---uninstaller feature... this will reset your license as well..., you might wish to use a program such as CC cleaner, and use the Clean Registry module.  Clear out all refs of the v2.4 install. Then, reboot your computer.  Back to the Desktop, now install v2.3 to your choice location.  Reboot the computer.  Run v2.3 to recreate all the four sub-folder locations, and to build up the .cfg files.  Fly around, and set up your in-sim slider requirements. Shut down, and reboot once more. Now, start bringing back your 3rdP applications.  After you do....reboot the system, once more...grab a coffee/beer/wine...and enjoy what I think, is the best rendition and output from the P3D factory yet....v2.3, terrain-shadow bug and all.... :rolleyes:

 

Final suggestion;  BACK UP YOUR SYSTEM!   Do a full system image backup. If in the future anything goes South...you are sitting pretty...a few hours later..and your Desktop and everything under it...is right back there to enjoy!!!

 

Happy P3D'ing, no matter which version you settle upon....there are great features and visuals in this flight software from Lockheed Martin...and I want them back, as v2.3 can still dish out the gravy.... :P

 

Ses

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Has LM, hit the wall, as far as P3D.x coding is concerned?

Nah, they have hardly scratched the surface yet, it keeps getting better for every iteration in my opinion.

 

Not saying it's WOW PERFECT or similar, my clouds are now wonky in a new magnificent way (lol), but it's evolving.

 

Performance isn't too shabby either.

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Nah, they have hardly scratched the surface yet

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With this engine...I respectively feel that they are almost on the bottom, in the sand... the 'surface' was left...and v2.3 is the new standard depth of 350 feet...(smile).  It still will hold at the seams, though!  I would love to be proved wrong...absolutely!  For my needs, 'wonky' clouds are not welcome....the sky has to appear as the real world...and in that requirement,.... v2.4 was a flaming bust.

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Hmm mm.... . Now all my testing isn't complete, but on my system my overall impr

.... D@rn phone... Lol...

... Impression is that the graphics are better. The tones, Sky, haze, fog, shadows, and lighting are much more realistic. Very nice. As far as frames they seem to be the same or maybe improved... But I have to test more.

 

Bottom line is, I don't see the issue you refer to.... So I'm wondering if it might be a driver or system issue.... ???

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With this engine...I respectively feel that they are almost on the bottom, in the sand... the 'surface' was left...and v2.3 is the new standard depth of 350 feet...(smile).  It still will hold at the seams, though!  I would love to be proved wrong...absolutely!  For my needs, 'wonky' clouds are not welcome....the sky has to appear as the real world...and v2.4 was a bust.

 

I haven't flown much of 2.4 yet, about 3 hours, but haven't noticed anything odd about the sky or clouds other than the unrealistic parallel strips of high cloud which have been around since version 2.0 and can look weird if you are flying/viewing in parallel to them.

 

Did LM even touch the sky with this update (other than the cloud.fx mods)?

 

It all looks OK to me and the BGL memory leak fix can only be a positive where OOMs are concerned.

 

I did the patch install as per Rob's instructions and I am very happy with the results.

 

Daz

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So I'm wondering if it might be a driver or system issue..

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The same system  and driver that gave me fabulous visuals..and performance, was what was driving v2.4  It is not the system or the driver...it was the version. I went back to v2.3..and have duplicated the prior great,clear visuals, and clouds that have depth, but not an extruded form factor.  Nope, not the system or the latest nVidia driver.....it is coding-based...

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Interesting thought. Whether that's the case or not today, the time will come when it is as the wiggle room for improvement becomes less and less. It does seem that each iteration contains smaller changes around the edges. Food for thought indeed.

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I think you were a little early in blaming LM for this. Like the replies above, I've noticed a marked improvement in 2.4 over 2.3. I can't observe none of the things you said in my sim.... OOM management is great, the shadows are better (not fixed, but definitely better)... Have you tried to install 2.4 from scratch, or, using your words, installing a virgin 2.4?

 

Cheers!

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I could be wrong but I don't see differences in the sky between 2.3 (with cloud.fx fixed) or 2.4....? Screenshots please :o

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 Nope, not the system or the latest nVidia driver.....it is coding-based...

 

If this was the case wouldn't everyone have the same issue?

 

My guess is that a cfg entry, shader file or some other mod carried across from 2.3 does not sit well in 2.4.

 

Daz

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I could be wrong but I don't see differences in the sky between 2.3 (with cloud.fx fixed) or 2.4....? Screenshots please :o

Look in a recent thread...there are two screen shots from last night... :)

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The same system  and driver that gave me fabulous visuals..and performance, was what was driving v2.4  It is not the system or the driver...it was the version. I went back to v2.3..and have duplicated the prior great,clear visuals, and clouds that have depth, but not an extruded form factor.  Nope, not the system or the latest nVidia driver.....it is coding-based...

 

I've stated this in another post and I'll state it here again. I simply have no clue whatsoever what you're talking about. I see no difference between both versions. I hope v2.5 and upwards will get you ecstatic again. I like that Mitch a lot better :P By the way, I don't think LM has hit the wall yet. I expect many more improvements until a possible future switch to 64bit.

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If this was the case wouldn't everyone have the same issue?

 

My guess is that a cfg entry, shader file or some other mod carried across from 2.3 does not sit well in 2.4.

 

Daz

Before I totally gave up on v2.4...I completely deleted all Lockheed Martin folders...and then did a virgin full install of 2.4 this morning, just as you suggested...to see if this was perhaps the case. Nada...as soon as I was placed (with ONLY v2.4 virgin files in the running) on the default threshold...the sky before me extruded out to the horizon...the clouds almost sitting 180-200 degress to my viewpoint out the cockpit.  I then deleted all ref's to v2.4..and installed v2.3  What did I see?....prefect sky formation once more...the same sky that is in all my snaps...including my Sedona Arizona snaps in the Screeshot Forum.  Sky..and cloudscape that  LOOKS like what is out the den window....   So...you had a good tip and point...and this morning...checked out that possibility. I know that there are many users that are seeing this extruded fish-bowl sky..but are not posting it....for it either doesn't personally matter to them...or they want to stay with v2.4...and have to live with it.  I want to see snapshots from ANYBODY..of a cloud-filled sky....that can also confirm the shots were taken from v2.4....and to see both out the cockpit...side-to-side from the cockpit..and finally...in SPOT mode...and to post them in the Screenshot Forum...as compared to snaps of the sky and clouds...taken in v2.3    You are not going to find one snap from v2.4 that will not have a form factor of distortion.  Prove me wrong, somebody...prove me wrong...no fish-bowl.....but a v2.3-like symmetrical sky visual.....that can be seen in v2.4   Any takers???   I can post tons of pictures of sky so visibly natural to the eye..that you'd be almost hard pressed to think it not a photograph....   This can NOT be done in v2.4....and most unfortunately so. Please somebody...prove me wrong!!!!   Snap away..and post....

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Before I totally gave up on v2.4...I completely deleted all Lockheed Martin folders...and then did a virgin full install of 2.4 this morning, just as you suggested...to see if this was perhaps the case. Nada...as soon as I was placed (with ONLY v2.4 virgin files in the running) on the default threshold...the sky before me extruded out to the horizon...the clouds almost sitting 180-200 degress to my viewpoint out the cockpit.  I then deleted all ref's to v2.4..and installed v2.3  What did I see?....prefect sky formation once more...the same sky that is in all my snaps...including my Sedona Arizona snaps in the Screeshot Forum.  Sky..and cloudscape that  LOOKS like what is out the den window....   So...you had a good tip and point...and this morning...checked out that possibility. I know that there are many users that are seeing this extruded fish-bowl sky..but are not posting it....for it either doesn't personally matter to them...or they want to stay with v2.4...and have to live with it.  I want to see snapshots from ANYBODY..of a cloud-filled sky....that can also confirm the shots were taken from v2.4....and to see both out the cockpit...side-to-side from the cockpit..and finally...in SPOT mode...and to post them in the Screenshot Forum...as compared to snaps of the sky and clouds...taken in v2.3    You are not going to find one snap from v2.4 that will not have a form factor of distortion.  Prove me wrong, somebody...prove me wrong...no fish-bowl.....but a v2.3-like symmetrical sky visual.....that can be seen in v2.4   Any takers???   I can post tons of pictures of sky so visibly natural to the eye..that you'd be almost hard pressed to think it not a photograph....   This can NOT be done in v2.4....and most unfortunately so. Please somebody...prove me wrong!!!!   Snap away..and post....

 

Fair enough, just a thought.

 

My only recollection of the 'fish bowl' effect you describe is LM's default flight scenario when the sim first loads and you are in a zoomed out virtual cockpit view (god knows why!).

 

A simple tap of the backspace key puts everything as it should be, and I have experienced this in every version.

 

Daz

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I've stated this in another post and I'll state it here again. I simply have no clue whatsoever what you're talking about. I see no difference between both versions. I hope v2.5 and upwards will get you ecstatic again. I like that Mitch a lot better :P By the way, I don't think LM has hit the wall yet. I expect many more improvements until a possible future switch to 64bit.

Hi Rim...

 

I guess that there will be users that will migrate and stay with v2.4 until something else gets released...and there will be others..that will stay, or migrate back to v2.3.  I'm of the latter crowd.  If you like what you see out the v2.4 cockpit glass...man...all the power to ya!  :))))))))))

 

This was not the case this version around, for myself.  No tears.....I had a plan-B....and I'm building the baseball diamond as I type, and hanging around the computer getting all my 3rdP back into v2.3. Then....the leg over a saddle for some by-the-lake motorcycling.....which proves, that there is no day..that a little sunshine and wind, can't light up... :lol:

 

Cheers, and all the best,

 

Mitch

Fair enough, just a thought.

 

My only recollection of the 'fish bowl' effect you describe is LM's default flight scenario when the sim first loads and you are in a zoomed out virtual cockpit view (god knows why!).

 

A simple tap of the backspace key puts everything as it should be, and I have experienced this in every version.

 

Daz

Daz...done that...have the T-shirt...have zoomed in...have zoomed out...and even in Spot View....you see the tunnel effect out towards the horizon...which has a constricted, narrow appearance. I tooks shots of this and posted them in this forum yesterday from my C377.....

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Mitch,

 

Your screenshots in the other thread - which airport was that, and which weather theme did you use?

 

I have the same aircraft (Carenado) and would like to reproduce your shot.

 

All the best,

 

Daz


 

 


.you see the tunnel effect out towards the horizon...which has a constricted, narrow appearance. I tooks shots of this and posted them in this forum yesterday from my C377.....

 

For me, that tunnel effect totally disappears, returns to normal, as soon as I hit backspace.

If I recall your screenshot correctly, it looks as tough the cockpit zoom/viewpoint was fine but the external view port was expanded, almost like when you use the ctrl -/+ keys to move your camera position rather than actually zoom in/out the camera..

 

Daz

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I think you were a little early in blaming LM for this. Like the replies above, I've noticed a marked improvement in 2.4 over 2.3. I can't observe none of the things you said in my sim.... OOM management is great, the shadows are better (not fixed, but definitely better)... Have you tried to install 2.4 from scratch, or, using your words, installing a virgin 2.4?

 

Cheers!

Yes, Sbacchini...a full  from-scracth v2.4 installation early this morning.  From the get go.. in the default jet, the very first flight...a pain'ed....extruded into the distance sky visual...with clouds that were distorted, and looking like fat Twinkies...lol.  The clouds were the default. The sim had nothing touching it of a 3rdP nature.  I flew...I looked...I frowned...and I uninstalled.  If somebody is having a better go with their v2.4...I'm most happy for them. That is the full truth.  It just didn't work out for me, personally...and I won't you-know-what in somebody else's corn-flakes...  I am happy to be running v2.3, which does meet all my visual needs, and then some!  So, all is good...very good.

 

Cheers!

 

Happy Camper again....

Mitch,

 

Your screenshots in the other thread - which airport was that, and which weather theme did you use?

 

I have the same aircraft (Carenado) and would like to reproduce your shot.

 

All the best,

 

Daz

 

 

 

For me, that tunnel effect totally disappears, returns to normal, as soon as I hit backspace.

 

If I recall your screenshot correctly, it looks as tough the cockpit zoom/viewpoint was fine but the external view port was expanded, almost like when you use the ctrl -/+ keys to move your camera position rather than actually zoom in/out the camera..

 

Daz

Daz, I was sitting on the threshold at  CYTZ,  in Toronto.  Man..if you can show me that the same sky visuals can be had in v2.4, as they are in v2.3.......by any methods of yours...I'd be jumping for joy...have a go at it, my friend! :)  Leave a link to those screen grabs in this thread...and I will most certainly look forward to what you might reproduce!!!!

 

Mitch

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Daz, I was sitting on the threshold at  CYTZ,  in Toronto.  Man..if you can show me that the same sky visuals can be had in v2.4, as they are in v2.3.......by any methods of yours...I'd be jumping for joy...have a go at it, my friend! :)  Leave a link to those screen grabs in this thread...and I will most certainly look forward to what you might reproduce!!!!

 

I'll give it a go later - did you use the default weather theme?

Daz

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Hopefully you can sort this out Mitch.  :)  

I am not experiencing any issues that you are in 2.4.  v2.4 is a solid step forward and it has more smoothness and better visual representation.  I just installed it last night and was up until 3am enjoying the experience.  Just love this version.

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I'll give it a go later - did you use the default weather theme?

Daz

Yessir...I fired up v2.4...and it plopped me down on the default threshold...in the default A35

Hopefully you can sort this out Mitch.  :)  

I am not experiencing any issues that you are in 2.4.  v2.4 is a solid step forward and it has more smoothness and better visual representation.  I just installed it last night and was up until 3am enjoying the experience.  Just love this version.

Then that is fabulous for you Mike. I had hoped for the same result.  Having said that...it's not like I am going back to some 'dog' version.  I remember how thrilled I was within the first ten minutes of flight in v2.3. That can be produced, any time I fly back inside it....   Cheers!

 

Mitch'er

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Yessir...I fired up v2.4...and it plopped me down on the default threshold...in the default A35

Then that is fabulous for you Mike. I had hoped for the same result.  Having said that...it's not like I am going back to some 'dog' version.  I remember how thrilled I was within the first ten minutes of flight in v2.3. That can be produced, any time I fly back inside it....   Cheers!

 

Mitch'er

 

I'm a bit confused now - is CYTZ Toronto now the default threshold or did you set up another default flight?

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Then....the leg over a saddle for some by-the-lake motorcycling.....which proves, that there is no day..that a little sunshine and wind, can't light up... :lol:

 

Amen to that!  B)

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To be honest I can't even understand what you are talking about Mitch. Here are some pictures I just took, can you see anything wrong with them?

 

5l7wgz.jpg

 

317ecg9.jpg

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Yes, Sbacchini...a full  from-scracth v2.4 installation early this morning.  From the get go.. in the default jet, the very first flight...a pain'ed....extruded into the distance sky visual...with clouds that were distorted, and looking like fat Twinkies...lol.  The clouds were the default. The sim had nothing touching it of a 3rdP nature.  I flew...I looked...I frowned...and I uninstalled.  If somebody is having a better go with their v2.4...I'm most happy for them. That is the full truth.  It just didn't work out for me, personally...and I won't you-know-what in somebody else's corn-flakes...  I am happy to be running v2.3, which does meet all my visual needs, and then some!  So, all is good...very good.

 

Cheers!

 

Happy Camper again....

Daz, I was sitting on the threshold at  CYTZ,  in Toronto.  Man..if you can show me that the same sky visuals can be had in v2.4, as they are in v2.3.......by any methods of yours...I'd be jumping for joy...have a go at it, my friend! :)  Leave a link to those screen grabs in this thread...and I will most certainly look forward to what you might reproduce!!!!

 

Mitch

 

Hi Mitch,

 

Screenshots at CYTZ as promised, using the Building Storms weather theme, one in the C337 and one in the F35A:

 

csOyV.jpg

 

ZqXxU.jpg

 

Nothing wrong with those to my eyes.

 

Regards,

Daz

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