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Hammerheadmike

Shared cockpit again...

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Hi All,

 

Apologies if prev discussed to death. Feel free to ignore if that's the case... (I cant find much about this topic).

 

Shared cockpits (where 2 people share one virtual aircraft) is high on my wishlist. I seem to recall seeing a test feature in an early release of the first 744 which was pulled (I could be wrong - it was a while ago)... but ever since - I've wondered about it.

 

You might know there is a 3rd party tool for sharing "most" of the 737 cockpit, but I wondered with the onset of p3d (and less chance of OOMs) etc - whether anything could be incorporated within the PMDG software (as Majestic seem to have done in their upcoming Dash 8 pro version).

 

Have a great day all.

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It is my understanding that the coding to get the gauges to sink up has been the issue. The Maddog MD88 I think is the only add on aircraft that supports cockpit sharing. With Magestic Dash8, it uses a external flight engine so they are able to break away from FSX to sync the gauges. I can barely turn my computer on without tech support so I could be completely wrong. It would be nice to have cockpit share. Especially with the T7 and 747 v2 since it has very long routes. I also do recall reading almost two years ago that they were looking into cockpit share for the V2 747. However this was long before the T7 was out and the 747v2 was still in the beginning so they may have relaized that cockpit share is not feasible at the time.

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Thanks for your comments Jason. Agreed and understood.

 

In 1996 I was lucky enough to land my dream job, writing and testing software for the largest motion flight simulator in europe at the time (DERA Bedford, England). It has since closed down due to the end of the Russian threat, which as we all know - was the end of that problem. (I married a Ukrainian-Russian, don't get me going :( )

 

Back to the sim, we worked on some amazing concepts and projects in 96/97- at a time when PCs were only just becoming viable for flight models and visuals (PCI Graphics cards at 10k each, anyone? ).

 

So I certainly hope the potential is there in 2014 for PMDG - if they chose to run with this. I understand it's not simple, and might mean unraveling work already done, so all I can do is raise the subject, promote discussion - and hope.

 

I've just seen that Desk-Pilot will soon support the 777 as well as the 737 - although I'm mindful it's 3rd party and not perfect, it's a step forward.

 

The social element of flight simulation is important to me. With vatsim and VAs coming on the scene, it has given us a huge leap forward from standalone flights. A shared cockpit is the next logical step for those eager to expand their virtual aviation horizons, pun intended.

 

Money isn't a factor, it's added value. I'd be happy to pay for the feature (as I will with the Dash 8).

 

Have a great day.

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I'm totally not an expert in this but wouldn't it be possible via some third party software? Like FSUIPC or any other?

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Hi Namejs,

 

Yes it appears to be - via a PMDG SDK. This is what desk-pilot are using with the 737 and soon (according to their website) the 777.

 

So if the 747v2 is to benefit from similar coding internals to the 777, then I guess we might have hope of the 747v2 being sharable, and that would be magic :)

 

Not sure about FSUIPC as I'm no expert in it, but have a feeling the PMDG offsets are not programmable in it as they are not disclosed (could be wrong - would love to be wrong). Even if this was a goer, I'm not sure how it would then communicate with the other cockpit without some middleware.

 

At the moment, the middleware seems to be the great but unsupported desk-pilot.

 

Many thanks indeed.


Correction - offsets available for 737! http://fsuipc.simflight.com/beta/Offset_Mapping_PMDG737NGX.pdf

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As we all know, FSX is no longer being developed. However, P3D is, and will be improved upon for some time to come.....possibly a 64-bit version later I hear?

 

It would seem to me that PMDG should, or I would hope, be working closely with LM to place the necessary "hooks" into P3D's SDK that would permit the concept of "shared cockpit" to take advantage of these advanced PMDG products. I would also assume that P3D team has improved upon the FSX networking module to make it faster and more robust?

 

If PMDG is going to sell training solutions to Airlines, I would think this to be a desirable feature to add.

 

However, I speculating as to what might possibly happen in the future.

 

So the only avenue open to shared cockpit, is via the P3D platform in my opinion.

 

Bill Clark

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So I certainly hope the potential is there in 2014 for PMDG - if they chose to run with this. I understand it's not simple, and might mean unraveling work already done, so all I can do is raise the subject, promote discussion - and hope.

 

It's been on the table, as other posts have alluded to. It just hasn't been perfected yet, so it hasn't been included.

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As we all know, FSX is no longer being developed. However, P3D is, and will be improved upon for some time to come.....possibly a 64-bit version later I hear?

 

It would seem to me that PMDG should, or I would hope, be working closely with LM to place the necessary "hooks" into P3D's SDK that would permit the concept of "shared cockpit" to take advantage of these advanced PMDG products. I would also assume that P3D team has improved upon the FSX networking module to make it faster and more robust?

 

If PMDG is going to sell training solutions to Airlines, I would think this to be a desirable feature to add.

 

However, I speculating as to what might possibly happen in the future.

 

So the only avenue open to shared cockpit, is via the P3D platform in my opinion.

 

Bill Clark

 

On the contrary, while developing the networking backbone for shared cockpit is far from easy due to the shear amount of things that would have to be synchronized in an aircraft as complex as the NGX, its not so difficult that it could only be done by LM in P3D. Chances are, even if the shared cockpit system is improved in P3D, PMDG would still need to write their own system.

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Thanks for the input and discussion so far on this. It's nice to know that others are interested.

 

Given that majestic have created an external system for their dash 8 model (and thus shared cockpit)... proves it possible.... that thing been in successful beta for a year whilst they faff about with the Hud! (Give us the shared cockpit guys, it works!)..... I guess pmdg would like to ensure that they don't end up with a support headache, which is entirely understandable if the integration isn't totally fool proof.

 

Hang in there on this function.... It would be another massive boost to realism.

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Michael-

 

I always laugh when I see folks point out "external simulation" as if it is a thing.

 

PMDG has been simulating the airplane outside of FSX since 2003...  I don't think we were the first to do it, even back then.  Most of the modern addons currently on the market do most of the simulating outside of FSX.  At PMDG I would guess that about 98.5% of our "stuff" takes place outside FSX... 

 

Impressive, isn't it?  No...  It really isn't.  It is how programs are written.  If I may pull back the curtain and let you see some of the magic for a moment:  Sim developers are long on "marketing."  Don't let the hype fool you.  :ph34r:

 

So the hype surrounding doing something inside/outside of FSX is very very overrated.  In fact- it really isn't germane to this particular functionality of shared cockpits at all.

 

The process of linking up multiple users in a PMDG product will eventually happen- but it probably won't happen right away.  The primary impediment at this point is economic.  We have a small development team with a large development process underway- and the incremental revenue that we can anticipate earning from the developer time investment currently doesn't work in favor of the investment....

 

We are expanding the dev team- and this may change as we do.  When it does- we'll certainly let you know!

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We are expanding the dev team- and this may change as we do.  When it does- we'll certainly let you know!

 

Hey - that sounds encouraging. I may even buy some of your products if you promise to use the proceeds to fund this endeavour. It might pay for a developer... for maybe half a day or so  :lol:

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Michael-

 

I always laugh when I see folks point out "external simulation" as if it is a thing.

 

PMDG has been simulating the airplane outside of FSX since 2003... I don't think we were the first to do it, even back then. Most of the modern addons currently on the market do most of the simulating outside of FSX. At PMDG I would guess that about 98.5% of our "stuff" takes place outside FSX...

Thank you for your kind response and explanation. I wasn't aware of this and am very aware I pick things up from various sources and knit together some assumptions in the process. Your information is useful, and commercial situation understandable.

 

I run a tech firm in the UK and although my pressures are different from yours (your market is niche, mine is rather mundane in comparison) - I have to allocate resources carefully to meet our business objectives too. Sometimes you can't please everyone, and it's better to communicate why. So thanks for the post.

 

As I made earlier mention, I would happily pay for shared flighdeck facilies - and am encouraged that this might be afforded to us one day when resources / priorities allow.

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Makes me wander. If most of the code runs outside Fsx. How much of the power of a modern pc is used. And with that, how much advance will a new pc after 3 years do when using let's say the 777?

 

Greetings,

Maikel Rozemeijer - PE1123

NL

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