Hello Ladys and Gentleman, 

 

today i red that the Dynamic Friction Modification for FSUIPC is one of the "must haves" to get the most realistic experience with our T7. I downloaded this file and i´m testing it right now and it´s really a difference. There isn´t much throttle work needed with this parameters. But is this realistic? Do you need this "mod"? 

 

I´m really looking forward to your replies and experiences with this modification! 

 

 

As already mentioned in another thread yesterday, PMDG does dynamics modelling outside of the FSX box and therefore any add-on that does the same thing is probably not going to be authentic. I wouldn't trust it.  I know first hand that PMDG goes to great effort and time to achieve the best dynamic realism that is possible.

As already mentioned in another thread yesterday, PMDG does dynamics modelling outside of the FSX box and therefore any add-on that does the same thing is probably not going to be authentic. I wouldn't trust it.  I know first hand that PMDG goes to great effort and time to achieve the best dynamic realism that is possible.

 

PMDG does it based on conditions like wet rain/snow?

PMDG does it based on conditions like wet rain/snow?

Obviously not. My concern would be having a add-on alter the dynamics of the B777 in dry conditions.

Have a look here: http://forum.avsim.net/topic/420774-pmdg-777x-and-fsuipc-ground-friction-modification/?hl=%20dynamic%20%20friction

All is explained in this topic if you read all posts. PMDG is surely against. But all it does is to correct the unrealistic friction, including the sideways, in FSX.

It don't alter anything of the B777 or any other planes in your FSX. and it is easy to get rid of if you don't like it.

Have a look here: http://forum.avsim.net/topic/420774-pmdg-777x-and-fsuipc-ground-friction-modification/?hl=%20dynamic%20%20friction

All is explained in this topic if you read all posts. PMDG is surely against. But all it does is to correct the unrealistic friction, including the sideways, in FSX.

It don't alter anything of the B777 or any other planes in your FSX. and it is easy to get rid of if you don't like it.

 

Yes, but is this realistic? I tried this modification out and it was good, but i´m afraid that theres unrealistic low thrust needed to start with the taxi. 

How much thrust is needed for the real 777 to starting with the taxi?

Yes, but is this realistic? I tried this modification out and it was good, but i´m afraid that theres unrealistic low thrust needed to start with the taxi.

How much thrust is needed for the real 777 to starting with the taxi?

You shouldn't need much thrust to start moving. Ideally the sim should roughly maintain taxi speed with idle thrust. I always keep the FSUIPC friction mod enabled and it feels perfectly good to me with both the 777 and 737.

 

The FSUIPC mod should be the standard baseline for all developers to start from as it corrects the friction errors in FSX. Unfortunately PMDG regard it as a hack so fix things their own way.

Interesting. I use Frictionality all the time with FSX. Am I running an unneeded extra program with my PMDG aircraft?

Okay, so it´s realistic to using this dynamic friction?! nice.... now i´m gonna use it for every flight. like i told: I was afraid that this "modification" is unrealistic. The good thing is that the landing and takeoff distance isn´t affected by this mod because above 30kts on ground, this modification is disabled. 

You shouldn't need much thrust to start moving. Ideally the sim should roughly maintain taxi speed with idle thrust. I always keep the FSUIPC friction mod enabled and it feels perfectly good to me with both the 777 and 737.

The FSUIPC mod should be the standard baseline for all developers to start from as it corrects the friction errors in FSX. Unfortunately PMDG regard it as a hack so fix things their own way.

Yes, PMDG said that this is a hack but did they fixed the friction really on their own way? So if they found a way to fix this bug we don´t really need the dynamic friction "mod"?! I´m confused

Interesting. I use Frictionality all the time with FSX. Am I running an unneeded extra program with my PMDG aircraft?

+1 ...this is a good question. If PMDG found a way to deal with the "wrong" fsx friction, this dynamic friction mod for FSUIPS isn´t needed, right? I have no idea. I´m a little bit confused now^^. 

I wouldn't install any extra modifications. For example, FSL will have their own custom module for this in the A320-X... then again, this is one of the PITAs in FSX/P3D. Once these start coming out for X-Plane, there will be much more flexibility on the dev side of things.

Yes, PMDG said that this is a hack but did they fixed the friction really on their own way? So if they found a way to fix this bug we don´t really need the dynamic friction "mod"?! I´m confused

 

In theory fixing something twice should be unrealistic. Certainly with the Aerosoft Airbus, which also has a correction for high friction, it has an adverse effect. However I don't find that using the FSUIPC patch with PMDG sims is unrealistic. I suppose it depends on how the developer fixes the problem. Some fix it by boosting idle thrust which combined with reduced friction would have a noticeable unrealistic acceleration.

I wouldn't install any extra modifications. For example, FSL will have their own custom module for this in the A320-X... then again, this is one of the PITAs in FSX/P3D. Once these start coming out for X-Plane, there will be much more flexibility on the dev side of things.

Another reason why all FSX developers should adopt the FSUIPC patch, which fixes the bug in FSX, as standard and not all fix friction in their own way.

Very little to no power increase is needed to taxi the 777 or other acft with high-bypass fans.  When I was down in Chile, on occasion I would meet the diplomatic pouch courier on the ramp at the Santiago airport, and an Air France 777 had a regularly scheduled departure from the next gate over around the time the plane with the pouch arrived.  After the 777 started up, he would taxi off with virtually no audible increase in engine power. 

 

I wrote the DynamicFriction.lua script (the same one that's included in the example programs in FSUIPC) to solve two problems: first, the excessive amount of power needed to breakaway and taxi in FSX, and second, the pronounced tendency to skid sideways when turning during taxi at any speed above a crawl.  The PMDG 777, despite its generally good FDE, does still exhibit both of those tendencies without the friction mods.  The script as included in the lua example programs only affects ops below 30 knots, so impact to takeoff and landing performance is negligible.

 

Regards

 

 

Another reason why all FSX developers should adopt the FSUIPC patch, which fixes the bug in FSX, as standard and not all fix friction in their own way.

 

Your reasoning has merit but consider the downside of a developer having to rely on an external entity that they have no control over for the quality of their product.

Very little to no power increase is needed to taxi the 777 or other acft with high-bypass fans.  When I was down in Chile, on occasion I would meet the diplomatic pouch courier on the ramp at the Santiago airport, and an Air France 777 had a regularly scheduled departure from the next gate over around the time the plane with the pouch arrived.  After the 777 started up, he would taxi off with virtually no audible increase in engine power. 

 

I wrote the DynamicFriction.lua script (the same one that's included in the example programs in FSUIPC) to solve two problems: first, the excessive amount of power needed to breakaway and taxi in FSX, and second, the pronounced tendency to skid sideways when turning during taxi at any speed above a crawl.  The PMDG 777, despite its generally good FDE, does still exhibit both of those tendencies without the friction mods.  The script as included in the lua example programs only affects ops below 30 knots, so impact to takeoff and landing performance is negligible.

 

Regards

WOW...!!! Really? You wrote these scripts? It´s very interesting what you wrote. I really think that using this script gives me the most realistic experience with my PMDG aircrafts, right? I was afraid that this modification could cause unrealistic taxi behaviors. For example: I had a heavy 777-300Er yesterday (loaded up with the weight of 394 passengers+luggage and cargo, and the fuel for hande the route Duesseldorf - Manila) and i needed very few thrust to starting the taxi with this really heavy aircraft with this lua script! 

 

But it seems that this ist totally realistic, right? The problem is that i don´t really know how much thrust is needed for a real 777-300ER for taxiing. 

 

You would say: Yes, using the PMDG 777-300Er with the dynamic friction script is the best you can do to get the most realistic taxiing? 

FWIW, Boeing's tech data says the GE90-110 produces ~4015 lbs of thrust per engine at idle, and at maximum gross weight on a 1% uphill slope, it takes about 9000 lbs per engine for breakaway (and less to taxi once rolling).  So loaded to the gills at max gross weight and going uphill, it only takes a very modest power bump to get rolling--and at lighter weights on a flat ramp, considerably less.

 

http://www.boeing.com/assets/pdf/commercial/airports/acaps/777rsec6.pdf

 

Regards