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Carenado citation first review?

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Against my better judgement, Ray and Glenn are starting to get me reluctantly interested. Glenn, I know from previous discussions how critical you've been of other Carenado efforts, so your comments carry particular weight for me. What's getting to me are the comments on how well the flying and engine pieces seem to be modeled, as that's the stuff I care about the most.

 

I really wouldn't have any objection to flying this one "old school" if the AP can be made to behave itself reasonably well, and the existing structure doesn't make it too tough to manually handle ground-based nav (VOR/NDB/DME/Localizer...). Is it relatively easy to mostly ignore the FMC and just tune nav radios?

 

That cockpit is soooo in my sweet spot for this kind of plane.

 

If only they'd offered GTN or RXP integration - with the very positive early comments on flight and engine modeling, I would've already dropped my resistance, despite the price.

 

Scott

Scott,

 

Send them an email and let them know your concerns. You shouldn't expect any changes in the food if you don't talk to the cook.

 

Regards,

Ray

Thanks very much Ray. I agree with those who talk about adding the GTN. I did get the airplane and have gone for a flight and it really is nice to fly. However, I was very light and I'll want to do a heavier flight to altitude. This is an "older" airplane though so I don't expect it to perform to new machine standards, but I do see these often of Flight Aware up around FL370 to 390, so it should do that ok. I'll find out.

 

I'll add my GTN, but I'm not happy that it's not integrated. That will factor into any future purchases for sure. As with Craig, I will send them an email regarding that feature.

 

I have found a number of things they did improve on from previous models. Handling (as others have mentioned) is excellent. I was able to do a VOR approach at night to minimums hand flying it, which was a pretty good feeling. Landing lights are MUCH better than before and the strobes even reflect off the ground now, which is nice. The spool up is really smooth and feels very accurate. More gauges (especially electrical) are modelled. The flood lighting (cockpit) stays on without the battery being on, which is not only accurate but extremely helpful. The reversers react very fast which is very good - most FS aircraft seem to have reversers that only come out after you've stopped! As I said, for my purposes this works very well and I'm happy with it, but I still want to do more flying with it under difficult conditions before I give it the real thumb's up.

Thanks to all who did the test flying on this.

The real ones are dogs when it comes to climb speeds at high altitudes. Best speeds are at FL350, best fuel flow at FL430. 500 FPM is good in the 400s. Most users never go higher than FL390. It is not worth the effort unless the winds are really favorable.

 

Regards,

Ray


When Pigs Fly . Ray Marshall .

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Send them an email and let them know your concerns. You shouldn't expect any changes in the food if you don't talk to the cook.

 

Understood Ray.  I find myself as both a Carenado fan and a critic, as I've purchased many of their planes, enjoyed several, been disappointed in more than a few, avoided others and provided feedback when I thought appropriate.  Will do so in this case as well, but here's both the bottom line and the problem...

 

I'm probably going to find myself buying this one regardless, and also probably hating myself afterwords as Carenado has obviously found themselves a formula that works and I'm (sometimes) a pawn in their strategy.  They seem to put just enough effort into their work to make their products hard to resist.  Mostly I do manage to stand on my principles, but sometimes not so much.  I mean... Just watched Rob Ainscoughs' video and how can you not want this?  Felt the same way about the Phenom and barely managed to not buy it.  Now this.

 

Email feedback is nice, but it's sales a company responds to and sometimes I don't serve my own best interests as well as i should.

 

Scott

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Guest BeaverDriver

Hey Scott,

I'll reply more tomorrow when I have a bit of time, but I did my flight tonight from Calgary/Springbank (CYBW) to Peace River (CYPE) all without turning on the FMC. I did have a flight plan built in so I was on GPS, but I could have just as easily done the whole thing using VOR's and NDB's. At 30 nm from YPE, I went to HDG mode and did a 17 DME Arc for the VOR approach to 04 into CYPE, hand flying the last 15 nm (which included the intercept from a fairly steep angle) and it was great. I had no trouble handling the aircraft which is a nice departure from most. The Alt Sel and VNAV (using the last term more generically than specific to this model) are a bit weird and take some getting used to, but they do work. I can't tell you if it's accurate or not.

 

Now on this flight it turns out I was really light (2 people and 50% fuel) so I really need to try a flight heavy, which I'll do tomorrow. I doubt I'll get to FL390 with it, but I should be able to get to 350 without too much work. We'll see and I'll let you know once I get the next flight in.

 

You're right about me being critical of Carenado. Still am for bugs that follow from airplane to airplane, but their past few releases have really been much improved in the FDE and engine dynamics area from my perspective (word of caution - I have zero RW jet time so I could be completely out to lunch on this - I'm going very qualitatively here), and even the sounds have improved greatly. If they'd only take care of some of the lingering issues, and offer GTN integration where appropriate, these guys would make a fortune.

 

Anyway, back later.

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Well, I've bit the bullet. It's downloading. Fingers crossed that it's okay.

 

Next I'll have to get theGTN750 for P3d. Hope they make a panel integration for it. Got it for FSX and think it's pretty good.

 

Dave

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The 337 was a day of release purchase.

 

Now I usually buy Carenado after sp1.

 

I don't know how much longer I can wait for this one.

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Well, I've bit the bullet. It's downloading. Fingers crossed that it's okay.

 

Next I'll have to get theGTN750 for P3d. Hope they make a panel integration for it. Got it for FSX and think it's pretty good.

 

Dave

I will be surprised if Carenado does the GTN panel integration for the S550. It will be a bit of work but then it might move a lot of flight simmers to reach for the credit card that would otherwise pass. I have been working on suggestions of how it could be done and the most straight forward plan is the replace the MFD and the Radar Altimeter with the GTN650. It is not as practical as having a GTN750 in the panel but it is a lightyear or so ahead of the MFD.

 

Regards,

 

Ray

GTN650_x.JPG


When Pigs Fly . Ray Marshall .

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I will be surprised if Carenado does the GTN panel integration for the S550. It will be a bit of work but then it might move a lot of flight simmers to reach for the credit card that would otherwise pass. I have been working on suggestions of how it could be done and the most straight forward plan is the replace the MFD and the Radar Altimeter with the GTN650. It is not as practical as having a GTN750 in the panel but it is a lightyear or so ahead of the MFD.

Regards,

Ray

 

Here's a YouTube video that shows how it fits in a RW 550...

 


Gregg Seipp

"A good landing is when you can walk away from the airplane.  A great landing is when you can reuse it."
i7-8700 32GB Ram, GTX-1070 8 Gig RAM

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My current view on this one, is that's it's a fantastic business jet - once you disable the cmeteoxml.dll gauge that causes stuttery performance.

 

The AP seems mainly fine now - part of it's apparant finnickyness was my 'forgetting' a couple of Carenado idiosyncracies with their APs.     It could be improved; eg so that IAS and VS can't (mysteriously) be selected at the same time.   But it works ok.

 

For those disappointed about the FMS in this model; think about this.   If Carenado had released this as 'old school' and hadn't put any FMS in the aircraft, would you have bought it? ...... The FMS is easily ignored :wink:

 

It is a typical Carenado product;  good in the usual areas, and weak in some of the usual areas.  But in some areas it's better than usual Carenado fare.

 

The thing is, we're so short of up to date addons of business jets.   Even with the lite FMS, this is, IMHO, by far the best retro bizjet available at this time. (I'd say the F1 Mustang is the best modern rendition).     The Citation II kills the Lionheart Lear effort in visuals, sounds, and yes, FDE.

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Here's a YouTube video that shows how it fits in a RW 550...

 

 

I sent this video to Carenado with the suggestion to pass on to the S550 design team. This was about two months ago. I also posted the link for the video at the F1GTN support site.

 

Thanks.

 

Ray


When Pigs Fly . Ray Marshall .

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I sent this video to Carenado with the suggestion to pass on to the S550 design team. This was about two months ago. I also posted the link for the video at the F1GTN support site.

Thanks.

Ray

 

I'm pretty surprised they didn't do it. 


Gregg Seipp

"A good landing is when you can walk away from the airplane.  A great landing is when you can reuse it."
i7-8700 32GB Ram, GTX-1070 8 Gig RAM

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I'm pretty surprised they didn't do it.

 

I'm disappointed also. We have to keep telling them what we want to buy. "To make the soup taste better you have to talk to the cook".

 

Regards,

Ray


When Pigs Fly . Ray Marshall .

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Having just got the GTN 750 myself, I have to say that its so impressive and well done that in this case, the hard work has already been done for Carenado and they should have just done GTN integration and forget the default GPS masked as an FMS scenario.

 

Why reinvent the wheel? 

 

Both GNS and GTN options are available and make perfect sense for integration in an aircraft like this.

 

As already stated, it would surely increase sales.

 

Having said that, if you ever go to the Carenado Facebook page, there seems to be no shortage of 'uneducated' buyers claiming that each release is the best thing since sliced bread. I think AVSIM users may be in more of a minority situation than we may think.

 

I was also thinking that Ernie Alston did a great standalone Universal FMS which was used in both the J41 (PMDG worked with him to use it) and also in the QW BAe 146 variants. Perhaps Carenado could have just licensed this for use?


Glenn

Ryzen 3700X, X570 Pro Wifi, 32GB 3600mhz RAM, Nvidia Titan Xp "Galactic Empire", RM750x PSU, H700 case, 2x NVMe M2 SSD, 1x SATA SSD

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Here is what it could look like. Remember, we fly this as a one pilot affair anyway. The Nav/Com 1/2 and transponder are included in the GTNs and I moved the ADF radios for better placement. Just an idea . . . .

 

Drool, drool.

 

Regards,

 

Ray

GTNs on rightside_rm_1024.jpg


When Pigs Fly . Ray Marshall .

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Looks great to me Ray!

 

Sold......if Carenado do it.

 

As I said before, surely adding this integration is simpler than providing a poorly disguised FMS?


Glenn

Ryzen 3700X, X570 Pro Wifi, 32GB 3600mhz RAM, Nvidia Titan Xp "Galactic Empire", RM750x PSU, H700 case, 2x NVMe M2 SSD, 1x SATA SSD

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