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Carenado citation first review?

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Anyone who have bought the citation could give a first review of this plane? 45 dollars is too much for an unknow product. Thank you in advance.

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Hello,

since you asked for it I will tell you my (partial) experience with the 550.

I am sorry to say but Carenado really disappointed me wit this addon. Considering the price I expect that PMDG will put their coming 747 v2 on the market at a price around $500... :lol:

 

I will report here just a short list of the numerous bugs that I could notice during my first two flights:

 

1) FMS PWR/DIM button just turns ON and OFF the display. Does not switch the system nor reset it.

2) Pressing NAV button on the FMS turns the autopilot ON!!!!! :huh:

3) POS INIT page does not allow to insert the initial position ident.

4) I have not been able to insert airways into the FMS flight plan.

5) MSG, DATA, TUNE, NAV and VNAV buttons doesn't work.

6) MFD doesn't display the FMS route.

7) TCAS traffics are totally unrealistic and... weird.

8) On groud Wind Vector is displayed on HSI and MFD!!!

9) ILS: G/S captured before LOC. ILS totally unstable.

10) First Radio Altimeter call "5 Hundreds" instead of "25 Hundreds".

11) DTO (Direct TO) function on the FMS is not dispalyed on the HSI and the Autopilot doesn't follow it.

 

I stopped taking notes of all the bugs. I will put this addon in the Hangar until Carenado will fix it (if they ever will).

Pity, 45 dollars wasted.

To me the plane today is at a freeware quality, apart for the VC graphics, I would strongly suggest you to wait with your purchase until it will be fixed.

Hope will help

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Sad to hear that they did´t get it right. I´m eagerly waiting for a good looking and performing (system-wise) private jet. Too bad they didn´t cut it (again!)...

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To me the plane today is at a freeware quality, apart for the VC graphics, I would strongly suggest you to wait with your purchase until it will be fixed.

 

Isnt that Carenado in general is all about?. I wouldn't expect anything different. All about the eye candy which I always believed  is the largest segment of the community. I have a few of their smaller aircraft. where no sophistication is needed and their very good.

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I do agree with both of you. Piston planes are quite good (even if nothing compared to A2A) but when they started with sophisticated turboprops and jets they totally failed.

A true pity because I am (still) looking for a good quality private jet and now I am not anymore looking hopefully for the Hawker. :(

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Naturally if they were presenting it in a real training simulator it would have to be detailed accurate in what regards systems etc...

 

As is, it meets the wants/needs of only untrained hobbyists, which most in this community are.

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Well, was anyone surprised? Another Phenom 100 scenario?

After reading ALL the posts and commentary on this one, it would appear that Carenado has not outdone themselves, AGAIN. Another pretty shell with dysfunctional or weak systems implementation and over-priced. We learned on the Phenom!

 

If you want a reasonable exec jet, try the LionHeart Lear. Everything works in it nicely. A joy to own and fly.

 

Carenado should stick to simple, basic airplanes -- an area where they put out nice products.

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The ONLY thing I can say is that they must make money doing this.  For me, I'll just wait for the Eaglesoft offerings...and keep right on flying and improving my Mustang.

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Well, was anyone surprised? Another Phenom 100 scenario?

After reading ALL the posts and commentary on this one, it would appear that Carenado has not outdone themselves, AGAIN. Another pretty shell with dysfunctional or weak systems implementation and over-priced. We learned on the Phenom!

 

If you want a reasonable exec jet, try the LionHeart Lear. Everything works in it nicely. A joy to own and fly.

 

Carenado should stick to simple, basic airplanes -- an area where they put out nice products.

The Lear 24B is a joy to fly. It has a few bugs, but it's still my favorite corporate jet right now.

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Another Phenom 100 scenario?

 

It is certainly sounding like it so far - I held off for a long time on the Phenom, but in the end I was so  really wanting a nice small jet that I broke down and got it - definitely a big purchase mistake for me, as the plane is just a glass-paneled FPS sucker, and is really a "soulless" flying experience IMPO. I was letting myself start to get interested in this new offering, but it sounds like I will be passing...

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The last good release from Carenado was the C337 Skymaster; IMO they got that one pretty spot on. Nothing else from then since has really been close to worth buying, pity really as their modelling and texturing is fantastic - their flight models and systems depth/accuracy are way off the mark though.

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peppy, I don't want to contraddict you but how do you explain, then, the great success of PMDG, A2A and Majestic planes?

I am not so sure that most of simmers are basic untrained hobbyst.

Furthermore Carenado people were aware of the "basic" level of the 550 and they shouldn't have priced it at a similar level of the Dash 8Q or the BAe 4100.

Two days ago I purchased the Milviz Kingair 350 and even if still in a Beta stage is far better than the Citation and the price is very close.

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The FMS is disappointing, and can't really even be considered a FMS at all, in this aircraft.

 

But it's not balanced to reflect the whole aircraft based on the FMS.   There are some great things about the aircraft, aside from the (lack of) FMS. 

 

It has great texturing, much better interior and switch sounds than all previous Carenado aircraft, nice engine sounds, a good EADI, EHSI and (not bad) MFD, FDE seems pretty good, and most basic engine systems and indications seem ok.

 

I've added the F1 GTN750 as a pop-up, and I'm having a whale of a time with it.   It's a good plane I reckon, although I definitely agree, overpriced.     It should have been $29.95 IMHO, not $44.95.     I was a sucker because I love Citation IIs, and hte Eaglesoft one is just too old now, texturally speaking. :smile:

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As is, it meets the wants/needs of only untrained hobbyists, which most in this community are.

 

Leaving aside whether that's a true statement or not, I would think even your "untrained hobbyists" would be a bit put off by the price, as it's well above "I just want to fly" levels.  At this price point most of us expect more.  Other vendors are doing some extraordinary things for this kind of money.

 

Scott

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Craig, the Citation 550 is, from all accounts, a good short field machine. If you have a minute, and flying by the numbers, could you try a takeoff from a 3500 ft runway with a medium load and climb to FL390 (not a max performance climb, but a reasonable cruise-climb) and post your impressions here? That would really help some of us decide on the FDE's, which are the most important thing. It would be important to make sure all the engine gauges stay in the green throughout the flight. If you feel like it, landing on a 3500 ft runway at the end of the flight would be a bonus.

 

If you can manage that time-wise, that would be just great. Thanks in advance.

 

PS - I too disagree that most here are untrained hobbyists. There are a lot of RW pilots, in all kinds of airplanes with all kinds of knowledge buying these airplanes. Otherwise you wouldn't see the bugs listed you do. Sadly, at this point Carenado are the only game in town for many of these aircraft, so we have little choice but to buy, and then rely on a few really talented people here to help fix some of the bugs that never should have "left the factory". Thank goodness for them or Carenado might be distant memory by now ;).

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Craig, the Citation 550 is, from all accounts, a good short field machine. If you have a minute, and flying by the numbers, could you try a takeoff from a 3500 ft runway with a medium load and climb to FL390 (not a max performance climb, but a reasonable cruise-climb) and post your impressions here? That would really help some of us decide on the FDE's, which are the most important thing. It would be important to make sure all the engine gauges stay in the green throughout the flight. If you feel like it, landing on a 3500 ft runway at the end of the flight would be a bonus.
 
If you can manage that time-wise, that would be just great. Thanks in advance.

 

I'll certainly see what I can do, Glenn.

 

From the (literally) couple of flights I've made so far, I'd say that hte climb performance is pretty spritely and feels convincing.    However take-off rolls definitely don't feel very short field.   I think rather than this relating to power and trust, it;s perhaps more to do with drag/lift settings in the FDE.    It seems quite a hesitant aircraft to rotate.  but once it's off, IT'S OFF!   :smile:

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The climb performance is like an old truck.....the climb rate between FL180 and FL240 was not more than 1200ft/m after my first flight. After reaching FL240 the aircraft speeds up and then you can climb again to a higher level so step climbs are more then recommended ;-)

 

And just to confirm that in the FMS I have no chance to check for example the ILS frequ. of my destination airport. At least in the PC-12 from Carenado i can check this via the airport info

 

Cheers,

Mark

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Craig, the Citation 550 is, from all accounts, a good short field machine. If you have a minute, and flying by the numbers, could you try a takeoff from a 3500 ft runway with a medium load and climb to FL390 (not a max performance climb, but a reasonable cruise-climb) and post your impressions here? That would really help some of us decide on the FDE's, which are the most important thing. It would be important to make sure all the engine gauges stay in the green throughout the flight. If you feel like it, landing on a 3500 ft runway at the end of the flight would be a bonus.

 

If you can manage that time-wise, that would be just great. Thanks in advance.

 

PS - I too disagree that most here are untrained hobbyists. There are a lot of RW pilots, in all kinds of airplanes with all kinds of knowledge buying these airplanes. Otherwise you wouldn't see the bugs listed you do. Sadly, at this point Carenado are the only game in town for many of these aircraft, so we have little choice but to buy, and then rely on a few really talented people here to help fix some of the bugs that never should have "left the factory". Thank goodness for them or Carenado might be distant memory by now ;).

Hello Glenn,

 

I was looking for a place in the forums to post my initial impressions. Looks like this is as good a place as any. I read about Rob's no flap, partial power then overboost takeoff for his video so I paid special attention to the takeoff run.

 

I chose KPDX for my initial flight and used 7 deg flaps and the favored runway with a gentle breeze on my nose. I was trimmed for TO and used full power. I was off the ground in about 1500 - 1600 feet by checking the runway markers. I set the initial climb for 3,000 FPM and held that up to about 8,000 feet and toned in down to 2,000 FPM.

 

I went to FL350 for a speed and fuel burn test. Everything I touched or looked at seemed to work. I did not even turn on the FMS. I don't have the BI-1900 so I thought I might read the manual for the FMS/EFIS first.

 

I was very please with the handling and looks of the S550. It is a real head turner and the sounds are good enough for me. The workmanship on the model is outstanding or maybe a little better. Frame rates for me are a non-issue. I couldn't see any real drop inside or out of the VC. May be different if the FMS is running.

 

The reflections and shadows are excellent in P3Dv2.4 with this one. I think Carenado may have improved the reflections on this one. They make it look almost real.

 

I like the 2d popups for the AP and EFIS panel. The MFD looks pretty slick and also pops up. I replaced the screen with my GTN750 for this flight so I will have to read more about the capabilites and report back on it. I am using the MFD popup feature to popup my GTN750 when needed. I need to find a way to have both at the same time. I know how, just need to spend the time making the popup hotspot.

 

Anyway, my numbers are almost book numbers for the S550, even though Carenado is not including the numbers just yet.

 

Level at FL350, 10,702 Total Weight (kinda on the light side), CG 16.7%, -53.9C OAT, -32.9C TAT, -63C Dewpoint.

Balls to the wall power setting for high cruise. N1 105.72/106.00 N2 98.86% / 99.00%, Turbine Thrust 602/607 Turbine Temps 485.8C / 486.4C, EPR 0.78 / 0.78, Oil Temo 78.8C /78.8C, Oil Press 78.5/78.6 psi

 

Proof of the pudding. TAS 399 kts. Mach 0.69 Book numbers are 402 kts / m 0.70 for a perfect day. Close enough for P3dV2.4 for me. Fuel burn at the time was 492 pph/496 pph. No big deal when using a virtual credit card for Jet Fuel.

 

The ground handling is outstanding. Nose wheel steering make ground movement a delight. Full fledge APU unit. Looks, sounds and acts like the real thing.

 

Exterior model seems to be perfect. I stepped through all the preset views inside and out. I have all the screen shots if you would like for me to send them to you.

 

Autopilot reponse seemed smack on for me. Heading and altitude changes were smooth and correct. I used the 2d popups on a second monitor so I could jump inside and outside and still monitor the gauges.

 

I did a circling visual approach and was close to the numbers. I couldn't read the A/S exact but was not more than a couple of knots off at any time. Smooth touchdown, well as smooth as the stiff gear on the S550 will let you. The trailing link mains were about 10 years later on the Bravo.

 

I am confident any bugs that do pop up will be fixed by Carenado or the community at large. I love this plane and will probably fly it until the modern ones - CJ1+ (my favorite) or the XLS+ hits the streets.

 

If the FMS turns out to be a dud, I will find a way to plant the GTNs in the panel. If not, I will use them as popups and enjoy my flying.

 

Oh, the livery that I chose had the little American flag backwards on the starbord vertical stablizer. Took about 2 minutes to make it right.

 

Nothing quite like a true jet. You gotta love the Citations if you are a Cessna man.

 

Regards,

 

Ray

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Ray,

 

You say you did a full power take off. Were all engine instruments in the green, particularly the ITT during the take off roll and climb out?

 

-Bob

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Ray,

 

You say you did a full power take off. Were all engine instruments in the green, particularly the ITT during the take off roll and climb out?

 

-Bob

I didn't capture any screenshots of the climbout. If I was in the red at any time it would have been for less than a minute anyway. I am off the do some short field takeoff and landings. I will pay close attention to the top end of the gauges. I normally fly out of a 3200 foot runway with tall trees at the end. Should be fun.

 

Regards,

 

Ray

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This is great of you Ray!! Thank you very much indeed. Sounds great. I see from a couple of your screenshots that the ITT's look fine even with the fan speeds up fairly high. I am concerned about the ITT's as well (same as Bob650), so that's the only remaining issue for me.

 

Really appreciate this Ray and I look forward to your report on short field takeoffs and how the ITT's respond. Many thanks!

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