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FlyingAxx

737NGX and ASN turbulence effects - recommendations needed

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Agreed.  Great implementation of turbulence in ASN with no S-turns.

 

Even if I usually appreciate Kyle's massages, in this case I tend partly to disagree ("no S-turns" is okay for me).

 

Due to the fact that I bought the T7 I decided to upgrade my AS2012 to Active Sky NEXT in order to enjoy the weather radar function. However, since I'm using ASN I'm experiencing quite often landing situations with my PMDG 737NGX, neither me nor the autopilot are able to cope with. It's always the same: At short final just a second or two before the upcoming touch-down the aircraft rolls immediately clockwise in a quite unrealistic way. The necessary moment of inertia shouldn't allow such a move - else I never would fly again in reality. Even if I'm alerted there is in most cases no time or even the slightest chance to react (autolanding does show the same effects and the a/p is overstrained, too).

  • I have no turbulence effects turned on in FSX,
  • FSUIPC is set to smoothen turbulences,
  • ASN has the same settings as I used in AS2012 (10% for max wind shear and wake turbulence strenght), and
  • there are no aircraft that could cause wake effects in front of me and if so I would know how to deal with the flight path.

Any advice or recommended settings that would allow effects reflecting a bit better the reality would be appreciated.

 

BTW, as far as I understand some contributions in the AS forum, there are some other aircraft (e.g. the buses of Aerosoft) having problems as well, others are unaffected.

 

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Your preference... mine is to totally disable any and all turbulence.  Even a small amount injected by ASN, approved by some, is very unrealistic for me.  I just learned last week or two that ASN overrides FSX WX and FSUIPC weather smoothing has no effect.  I tested that and now agree.

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Your preference... mine is to totally disable any and all turbulence.  Even a small amount injected by ASN, approved by some, is very unrealistic for me.  I just learned last week or two that ASN overrides FSX WX and FSUIPC weather smoothing has no effect.  I tested that and now agree.

 

Thanks Dan, this makes sense. Meanwhile (today) I tested new settings while flying with some buddies in Japan where the have airports on to of hills (it's really like a carrier landing) and with each setting reduced to 5% for gusts and wake turbulence it was a rather smooth ride even if the weather was quite gusty. Other planes have had problems, too. I'm often flying to remote fields with Aerosoft's DHC6-300 and got similar effects before. Today it felt much better as well. It seems that my present approach is somehow asymptotic to your present policy (default, 20%, 10%, 5%...and later probably 0%).  B)

 

By the way, so far I cannot remember problems with PMDG's B772.

 

EDIT: Before I forget, just today a friend of mine moaned about the behaviour of his A319 (Aerosoft) while using ASN. He recently changed to P3D.

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By the way, so far I cannot remember problems with PMDG's B772.

That's probably because in 777 SP1 PMDG made changes to filter out the worst effects of FSX turbulence to be more realistic. Hopefully that modelling can be added to the NGX in SP2.

 

For ASN I use 25% for both types of turbulence and I find that more than enough. 100% (which you'd think would be meant to represent full realism) is far too much, especially with the strange way FSX does turbulence.

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10% for max wind shear and wake turbulence strenght
I have wake turbulence set a 0. Not very realistic but then I don't think ASN's depiction of wake turbulence is very realistic. Any setting above 0 and I am in the ground before I can say "S--t".

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I have wake turbulence set a 0. Not very realistic but then I don't think ASN's depiction of wake turbulence is very realistic. Any setting above 0 and I am in the ground before I can say "S--t".

thats it disable wake turb in the ASN settings to solve this problem

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Thanks to all for your opinions. Michael, specifically this one meets exactly my experience!

 

 

 


Any setting above 0 and I am in the ground before I can say "S--t".

I don't think that I should mark the question to be solved. It's obviously rather a method to avoid trouble. :wacko:

 

 


That's probably because in 777 SP1 PMDG made changes to filter out the worst effects of FSX turbulence to be more realistic. Hopefully that modelling can be added to the NGX in SP2.

 

Kevin,let's hope together. I'm just afraid that we all are expecting rather a new product even if it's already a great one.

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I have wake turbulence set a 0. Not very realistic but then I don't think ASN's depiction of wake turbulence is very realistic. Any setting above 0 and I am in the ground before I can say "S--t".

I agree with you, mine is set to 0 but you reminded me of my first encounter with wake turbulence. I was working on my MEL in a Seneca with hood on shooting approaches at KOMA Epply Field Omaha, instructor in right seat, ex-wife in row behind knitting (honest). I was number two behind a Lockheed turboprop (Electra maybe) when all of a sudden and very aggressively I rolled 60 degrees and full yoke deflection managed to stop it there but not correct.  That was the best reason for a go around that I've experienced.  That wife didn't return until after I finished the training.

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Unfortunately all expectations that one of both interfacing companies would solve the overwhelming wake effect for the NGX failed. I have the latest Beta of ASN installed and forget to check the turbulence settings after the update (of course, they where set to default) and made a flight today with my brand new WX radar equipped NGX. The result had been a crash with likely no survivors (a A320 landed about 4 mins in front of me).

 

What do we have now, a weather program requiring aircraft specific settings? A ridiculous idea I suppose. It seems to be something that should be resolved between HiFi and PMDG. At the moment the bird's behaviour is not controllable as long as the related effects are set within ASN to anything > 0.

 

EDIT: If the fault is clearly on ASN's side I surely would expect a little bit of pressure on them from PMDG, probably together with Aerosoft (their Bus seems to have similar problems).

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I don't experience this at all.  Have you opened at ticket at hifisim.com?  Nothing will be done unless you submit a ticket.

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I don't experience this at all.  Have you opened at ticket at hifisim.com?  Nothing will be done unless you submit a ticket.

Devin,

 

I'm wondering a bit about your statement and if you would read some comments here it seems that I'm not the only one being afflicted with this behaviour. However, there are several entries in HiFi's support forum and you would find me amongst them. By the way, when flying online with a couple of friends I can hear (and sometimes watch) others sharing this experience, too.

 

As I have to leave now, I'm going to submit a ticket later today (I'm already registered)

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I'm going to submit a ticket later today (I'm already registered)

 

It's best to leave a send in a ticket.  That's how Damien and Kostas track bugs and trends.

 

Even though you posted in the Hifi forum, topics are easily lost, especially now with FSX,  FSX-SE, and P3d (the two latter being actively developed and needing program re-writes/updating).  Like PMDG, the forum tends to get busy and cluttered, hence why there is a ticket system for both.  Easier to manage and track.  It's not to make it harder for you guys, really!!  :D

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I know this was a problem in AS2012 with wake turb enabled, but didn't know it to be an issue with ASN.

 

Never experienced it myself in countless high density online hours in London with ASN.

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t's best to leave a send in a ticket. That's how Damien and Kostas track bugs and trends.

 

Meanwhile HiFi got a ticket.

I know this was a problem in AS2012 with wake turb enabled, but didn't know it to be an issue with ASN.

Never experienced it myself in countless high density online hours in London with ASN.

Interesting, it seems to be time to find out specific differences in the setup or environment.

 

In order to start with something:

I'm flying online just by using a FsHost Client-Server configuration and none of the usual online networks like VATSIM or IVAO. I'm using UT with 100% traffic which is still active when flying with my friends (we're not too many). However I'll make some tests now with locally induced traffic only and I'll look far a busy airport, too (I think London Heathrow is okay). Let's see what happens.

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So Gents may I ask for your opinions on obtaining best turbulence effects? I use ASN and wonder if I should switch off the turbulence in FSX and simply adjust ASN to my preference. Or should I leave FSX enabled?

 

In addition I also run EZDOC for flightdeck camera views and ground/air turbulence shake.

 

What should I do with all three and how do they interact?

 

Thank you!

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I use ASN and wonder if I should switch off the turbulence in FSX and simply adjust ASN to my preference. Or should I leave FSX enabled?

 

What turbulence in FSX are you referring to?  You lost me on that one.  If you're talking about the one in fsx.cfg, then I just leave it at default.

 

As for EZDOK, the camera reacts to the turbulence...it doesn't create it.

 

 

 

Interesting, it seems to be time to find out specific differences in the setup or environment.

 

I only use the default turbulence settings in ASN during normal use.  (I move it around when I'm testing it) 

 

With the default settings, I've never had the upsets you've had from wake turbulence...not in the same situations as you.  I have had upsets, but I have to be pretty close to the traffic.

 

ASN models wake turbulence to act as close as possible to real wake turbulence.  It will fan out behind the aircraft.  It will settle (drop in altitude) over time.  It will drift with ambient wind conditions.  It will slowly dissipate over time.  It will be more powerful with the size of aircraft and weather the wing is generating high lift or not (which affects the strength of the wake).

 

Using the ASN map with AI turned on, you can see the wake turbulence trail it leave behind.

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Using the ASN map with AI turned on, you can see the wake turbulence trail it leave behind.

 

Devin, your last hint can be helpful for sure. I've lost sight of this function and I'm afraid I have to search for it...

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It's not only PMDG planes that are getting this wake turb bug...it is others as well...such as in my case when using my A2A planes. I fly both their C182 and Cherokee...and with any wake turb enabled within ASN the effects of that are downright silly looking...it is not a smooth roll but rather more simllar in appearannce to an immediate change of viewpoint to something like a 30-60 degree change in position of the wing. The wing drop happens in a split-second...and then a couple seconds later again...a split second change (no smooth roll) to 60-90 degrees to the opposite direction.

 

When I tested this effect using a default FSX plane, however, it worked fine...you had a smooth roll effect (albeit quick as it should be). There is something about the effect's coding in ASN that doesn't seem to work correctly with some 3rd party planes.

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When I tested this effect using a default FSX plane, however, it worked fine...you had a smooth roll effect (albeit quick as it should be). There is something about the effect's coding in ASN that doesn't seem to work correctly with some 3rd party planes.

 

That's my experience, too. That's why I'm not sure on which side of the interface the best could be done.

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Thank you Netshadoe for your input.

 

I am referring to the weather settings in FSX where you can enable or disable turbulence affect on aircraft.

 

I agree that EZDOK reacts to and does not create turbulence but you can adjust the severity of the affect and this was where I wanted opinions. If you run FSX, EZDOK and ASN together, any tips on achieving best realism?

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I think you can leave the turbulence setting in FSX out of the picture since ASN will override that setting AFAIK.

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It's not only PMDG planes that are getting this wake turb bug...it is others as well...such as in my case when using my A2A planes. I fly both their C182 and Cherokee...and with any wake turb enabled within ASN the effects of that are downright silly looking...it is not a smooth roll but rather more simllar in appearannce to an immediate change of viewpoint to something like a 30-60 degree change in position of the wing. The wing drop happens in a split-second...and then a couple seconds later again...a split second change (no smooth roll) to 60-90 degrees to the opposite direction.

 

I have noticed this same thing with ASN and A2A and RealAir.  I have to completely disable wake turbulence in ASN if I am flying on Pilotedge.  I can't even take off after a 172 without getting uncontrollable effects.  I agree that the effects are very poorly implemented but it may be due to the aircraft config files (.air?) not being able to properly handle the information that ASN is providing.

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Thank you Netshadoe for your input.

 

I am referring to the weather settings in FSX where you can enable or disable turbulence affect on aircraft.

 

I agree that EZDOK reacts to and does not create turbulence but you can adjust the severity of the affect and this was where I wanted opinions. If you run FSX, EZDOK and ASN together, any tips on achieving best realism?

I don't think shaking the view in turbulence is very realistic. I find it distracting because I don't feel any actual motion to go with it. It's realistic enough to see the aircraft respond to the turbulence. Shaking the whole VC also makes using sim controls unrealistically difficult. In reality your hand would be "grounded" on the panel and you could easily use any control in turbulence. Following a moving clickspot in the VC is frustrating, not realistic.

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What I find works for me best is FSUIPC turn off all weather as HIFI suggests. Set ASN default turbulence settings, except set wake turbulence to 20%  click off Enhanced turbulence (This option causes the most severe turbulence reaction). Turn off turbulence in FSX. In EXDOK if you have it, use DHM only and set overall sensitivity to 25% in DHM settings.

 

Tom Cain

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