The only issue I have with that, is that they are not coordinating with the Devs on these planned updates.

 

Should DTG should wait before releasing an update  until the slowest developer has responded?

 

For example see post #136:

 

Unfortunately due to personal leave ..by one of the key development team which is fully understandable..I wish them at AS this required fix will be a little while in coming

g.

Should DTG should wait before releasing an update  until the slowest developer has responded?

No but a little heads up and access to early beta's would go along way in preventing what just happened. Aces did that with their updates, DTG could too, which in fact they did in regards to Peter's FSUIPC. That's why he was ready.

 

But ACES isn't DTG. We got what we paid for. FSX-SE cost me £3,99 - FSX itself cost me about £40-£50. Many add-ons cost more than FSX-SE now.

No but a little heads up and access to early beta's would go along way in preventing what just happened. Aces did that with their updates, DTG could too, which in fact they did in regards to Peter's FSUIPC. That's why he was ready.

 

This is because I badgered them. DTG aren't necessarily automatically aware of all those developers needing advanced notice and early Betas. I think they are building that list (by requests and complaints coming in I expect), and I think they will be staggering the Betas over longer periods to suit, but this is probably a rather new experience for them, and they are learning -- fast!

 

FSUIPC is seriously affected by even small changes. Most other addons are affected mostly because of the change in version numbers affecting how their installers behave.  I don't think that many are directly affected like FSUIPC by what would otherwise be minor changes like recompilations moving some locations slightly.

 

BTW, you can insulate your self from automatic updates wrecking your add-on compatibility by setting offline mode in the top left menu dropdown on the Steam app.

 

Pete

BTW, you can insulate your self from automatic updates wrecking your add-on compatibility by setting offline mode in the top left menu dropdown on the Steam app.

I don't think you can do that in the current release -- only in the Beta which appears to be no longer available.

 

Anyway, the Beta breaks my PMDG 777. So kind of a catch-22 - if I install the Beta I can stop further updates, but the update to Beta stops the T7.

 

Mike

 

.....but this is probably a rather new experience for them, and they are learning -- fast!

 

 

When FSX SP1 and SP2/Accel came out, there were very few addons in FSX that could be broken by the updates. 

 

The platform is much more mature, and developers now go farther than using FSUIPC offsets and SimConnect offsets they used to use back then.

 

Programs like ASN use dlls and memory hooks to work in FSX.  PMDG also use external dlls to make their aircraft work.  None of that existed in 2005-07 when FSX was new and being developed other than Pete's FSUIPC dll.

 

You can't expect a developer to make things work with Betas...because, it's just that, a BETA.  Why spend time making you product work if the beta will result in changes that will have to be fixed again and again until they decide the beta is stable and send out the release.  It doesn't make sense.

 

If you choose to use a beta, then you can't expect products that work on the stable, supported release to work with the beta until the beta test is finalized.  A developer is not obligated to make their product work with an unsupported beta...if they choose to, then you can count yourself lucky.

You can't expect a developer to make things work with Betas...because, it's just that, a BETA. Why spend time making you product work if the beta will result in changes that will have to be fixed again and again until they decide the beta is stable and send out the release. It doesn't make sense.

 

If you choose to use a beta, then you can't expect products that work on the stable, supported release to work with the beta until the beta test is finished.

I agree. But, since, AFAIK, the current (non-Beta) version gets updated whether I like it or not, I am afraid that it will suddenly be updated and make my PMDG 777 unusable.

 

Mike

I agree. But, since, AFAIK, the current (non-Beta) version gets updated whether I like it or not, I am afraid that it will suddenly be updated and make my PMDG 777 unusable.

 

Mike

 

Right...that's the "downside" about steam.  But, once the official update comes out, then PMDG will update.

 

You saw how long it took to get the 777 and NGX to work with the current version.  Let the official release come out and PMDG only has to work on one update instead of a moving target.

 

 

Right...that's the "downside" about steam. But, once the official update comes out, then PMDG will update.

 

Have you read anything official from PMDG on this, or is this just an assumption? The last thing I read regarding this is to post the issue on the DTG Beta thread, in which the reply was it's PMDG's problem. Since then PMDG has been absolutely quiet on the issue.

Have you read anything official from PMDG on this, or is this just an assumption? The last thing I read regarding this is to post the issue on the DTG Beta thread, in which the reply was it's PMDG's problem. Since then PMDG has been absolutely quiet on the issue.

 

Really...You want me to answer that?  Why would PMDG spend months and resources getting their 777 to work with FSX-SE and then decide not to update it to the new build?  With all due respect, even you have to admit that was a silly question.

 

It's not DTG who has to fix PMDG...it's up to PMDG.  Just like it was up to Pete to update FSUIPC, and Hifi to update ASN (which they graciously did and released it as a public beta) to work with this build.  I don't know the in's and out's to updating the 777, but it's in PMDG's court.  I'm not worried about it...things will work out.  It's not the end of the world.

Really...You want me to answer that? Why would PMDG spend months and resources getting their 777 to work with FSX-SE and then decide not to update it to the new build? With all due respect, even you have to admit that was a silly question.

 

I'm not really concerned too much on the will they, I'm more concerned with the when! PMDG pulled resources from their upcoming development projects, to make the T7 and NGX compatible, releasing them just within the last month, only to have DTG go and break it. I'm not so sure they're going to want to change and delay their development schedule any further and will put off fixing this until at least the 747V2 is released. This wouldn't be as big of an issue, if one could just hold off on updating FSX-SE until it is. The problem is once this update goes live, it will be forced on all current users, whether they want it or not. In the future this won't be as big of an issue, as you can then go offline and still run FSX-SE, but for this update, it's particularly troublesome.

The problem is once this update goes live, it will be forced on all current users, whether they want it or not. In the future this won't be as big of an issue, as you can then go offline and still run FSX-SE, but for this update, it's particularly troublesome.

 

I get where you're coming from...I agree that it should be up to the user to update their platform.  It's not DTG though, that is a Steam thing.  DTG supplies Steam with the update.  Steam should allow users to update when they want to.  With this, I'm in complete agreement with you Tom!!

 

EDIT:  Great videos BTW.  Wish I had the patience to do them!! 

 This wouldn't be as big of an issue, if one could just hold off on updating FSX-SE until it is. The problem is once this update goes live, it will be forced on all current users, whether they want it or not. In the future this won't be as big of an issue, as you can then go offline and still run FSX-SE, but for this update, it's particularly troublesome.

 

But the problem you are so worried about exists temporarily at present only because of the bug which disallowed the offline mode in versions up to and including 62608. They've fixed that, as you said. In 62610 they also fixed the main problems most folks were complaining about, the crashes in Terrain.dll and G3D.dll.

 

Why not be thankful that they ARE actively fixing things and listening to users and developers alike? There's a sort of chicken and egg thing going on here, isn't there? The developers can't make their programs work with an updated version unless they can get an advanced copy (the Beta) and DTG can't fix and develop FSX without making changes.

 

All that needs to happen is for the add-on developers like PMDG to make sure they do get the Beta versions as early as possible so they can be ready for the actual release. Before the public beta there's always a private one too and I'm sure those that need it could sign up for that too.

 

I think the current situation is just one which has arisen out of surprise, even shock, that DTG would even be capable of doing the things they are doing with FSX. It wasn't that long ago that folks were swearing that there was no way they'd be able to do anything with the FSX core code!

 

Regards

Pete

Have you read anything official from PMDG on this, or is this just an assumption? The last thing I read regarding this is to post the issue on the DTG Beta thread, in which the reply was it's PMDG's problem. Since then PMDG has been absolutely quiet on the issue.

I think that it's a good guess, though. I'm sure that most 3rd party developers try to keep up internally with the beta releases, but a lot of the changes from build to build of FSX-SE require further testing anyway, so most of the developers wait a bit to see how the add-on works with the release version. Sometimes the build changes are so minor that no further work is needed for the add-on. But not always.

 

For example, the developer of VRS Tacpack which uses a lot of nonstandard ways of communicating with FSX-SE has already said that his add-on probably wouldn't work with the next official release of FSX-SE and may take VRS a week or so to produce a working version.