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FLAPS15

An Honest Opinion Re P3D

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As My title says, I am looking for an honest opinion on the latest version of P3d,

 

Ok some back ground had 2.4 could not get it smooth ALWAYS stuttered in turns and sideways views regardless of scenery and aircraft. I know that Vsynch plays a part here and it still is not implemented via NI not at this time has Nvidia supported with a custom made profile.

 

So basically gave up after trying anything and everything and got a refund...so cannot get another refund now if I start again and re purchase hence this e mail..

 

System is I7 2600 OC to 4.5 GTX 770 4GB 16 GB corsair RAM so not the fastest but not a slouch.

 

I see a lot of good things being said about P3D now so I am on the fence again...but do not wish to be disappointed. The flying I like doing is payware airliners, payware Airports ASN and Orbx Global LC no regions and that is it...  

 

I am realistic as to settings and although I will not compare FSX it runs very well but of course lacks shadows and all the stuff P3D has so if anyone runs a similar system and Airliners I like to hear..

 

Thank your for your time

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I just upgraded to 2.5 (spent all day Friday uninstalling add-ons from 2.4 and re-installing into 2.5) and I am very happy.  It's the first time I've gotten the simulation to be COMPLETELY stutter free.   I did it through reading a lot about tessellation and what it does.  As I was researching I came across a great article and why it is a good idea to lock down the frame rates in frame rate hungry aircraft and how to do it properly.    With my moderate settings config (I have a config now for Hi-End 737 type PMDG products and a heavy settings one for GA flying) and the frames locked at 33fps with VSYNC and Triple buffering turned on I now have smooth flying even when my FPS drops into the low 20's at heavy airports.    Bad weather, HD airports, Hi-Def planes, nothing has made the sim stutter so far so I guess I did something right.

 

The big revelation for me was giving a bit of frame over head when deciding what to lock the frames at.    It was suggested you just pick your target frame then at 10% to that number and that's what you lock the frame at.   My target is 30 so @ 10$ that makes the target 33.   What this is does is prevent the Triple Buffer filling up before the GPU is ready to display the next set of frames (something like that.  It was technical jargon).   Basically, you stutter because your frame buffer isn't ready to release the next set of frames and so you get a stutter/pause while it waits for the go ahead to show the next set of frames.  By adding in this 10% overhead you are basically telling the video card to wait in sync with the TRUE frame rate you are looking for.  This make the buffer synchronize with your refresh rate (something like that.. XD   I am not a tech guru) and you don't stutter.

 

Make the jump.   All the big add-ons are now 2.5 ready.  Airports seem to work just fine too and with the arrival of the 777/737 from PMDG on to the platform it was a no brainer for me to switch.

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As My title says, I am looking for an honest opinion

 

2.5 runs very well, however, I remember your constant and ad nauseam negative comments over many threads about how bad P3D was.  Honestly, I think there is something very wrong with your setup, but I don't think you have the skill or patience to find out what could be wrong.  P3D is not for everyone and for some people, FSX is the better choice.

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Mike,

 

Man your just a rude arrogant person, you do not know me and your sweeping assumption that I neither have the skill or patience is down right rude!

 

If you cannot assist or do not wish to assist butt out, I came in here to ask for an opinion of a product not to be personally attacked.

 

Administrators please note!!

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As My title says, I am looking for an honest opinion on the latest version of P3d,

 

 I know that Vsynch plays a part here and it still is not implemented via NI not at this time has Nvidia supported with a custom made profile.

 

...... I think that this is really the missing piece of the jigsaw puzzle. On my system the best results are achieved with  2X SGSS applied in inspector and nothing else and frames set to unlimited in P3D with Vsync to "On"

 

I cannot for the life of me lock frames and get a smooth result, others seem to be able to. Maybe it is the 42" LED TV I am running.

 

I have got he best result I think I can achieve which I am happy with. I get the very occasional micro stutter but on the whole is very acceptable. I am still in the trial period but over the last few weeks have been in P3D more and quite enjoyed the extra eye candy so I think I am probably going to keep it

 

Richard 

 

 

 

 

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I'd say skip it. I too recall the numerous times you expressed frustration with P3D. 2.5 is an improvement, but I suspect there is nothing significant enough performance wise to address whatever was causing the stutters on your system. Maybe an official nVidia profile will help. I'd wait to see if that happens and see the general experience of other users once it is out. Not attacking you. Just an honest opinion.

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Richdem Snglecoil,

 

Many thanks for the Honest feedback, Snglecoil appreciate what you say...I would be the first to admit that frustration with P3d in the past did get my back up I just thought that everything going forward with anew company would make things better...and it has! But just not there yet for me...maybe!

 

Well I will watch and wait I like where it is going but rather than go down the frustration route again I thought I would test the water....really appreciate your time and comments

 

Thanks

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Flaps15 - Absolutely no insult intended and I can not comment on your skill set BUT you have CONSTANTLY complained about P3D from day one and no amount of help could cure your issues. The problem lies either in your setup or your expectations. Your system *should* be able to run P3D just fine and many people are running the same types of addons as you with great success.

 

There is an improvement in 2.5 but not huge BUT perhaps the clean install might cure whatever issues you had in the past. If should work just fine but if it does not, the question is whether or not you have the patience to dig in and find the issue rather than blaming LM for poor programming, etc.

 

As I have said many time before, I too initially sent P3D back - it was a mess and I do know what I am doing. After reading all the glowing reports, I figured I must have done something wrong and tried again - and have never looked back.

 

Good luck,

 

Vic

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my opinion is based on what you would like to fly...I love to fly airliners so I only installed ftx global, vector and LC. I get 25-35 fps based on moderate settings.. Smooth enough. If thou install all the fat regions and you fly airliners you will have disappointment

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I don't know if this is helpful to the OP but I have a similar system but with half the RAM, and I am slightly UNDER clocked on both CPU and GPU! I don't use any exotic tweaks apart from fiber frame= 0.15 which is about right for the scenery I load. I keep everything within the capability of my CPU and graphics and let P3d manage the cores. I get the very occasional stutter but nothing upsetting. I set frame rates at 33 and get 30 fps most of the time, but I don't have interior shadows enabled unless I'm in a simple aircraft that can handle it. Nor do I have HDR (looks artificial to my eyes and you can almost get the same effect turning up contrast and colour saturation).

 

If your system struggles to achieve much more than 20-25 fps you are already flogging it to death with too much detail and your frame rate is telling you so.

 

I've never had a CTD in P3d 2.5 and never had a single VAS problem. I think half the problems reported in both FSX and P3d are folks just trying to strangle their systems with too much overhead. Hope you find this helpful.

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Thanks Vic,

 

Excellent feedback it could be a time for a full reinstall of windows etc and then re try ona months trial. Thanks Pankaj that is good to know!

 

Thanks

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I just upgraded to 2.5 (spent all day Friday uninstalling add-ons from 2.4 and re-installing into 2.5) and I am very happy.  It's the first time I've gotten the simulation to be COMPLETELY stutter free.   I did it through reading a lot about tessellation and what it does.  As I was researching I came across a great article and why it is a good idea to lock down the frame rates in frame rate hungry aircraft and how to do it properly.    With my moderate settings config (I have a config now for Hi-End 737 type PMDG products and a heavy settings one for GA flying) and the frames locked at 33fps with VSYNC and Triple buffering turned on I now have smooth flying even when my FPS drops into the low 20's at heavy airports.    Bad weather, HD airports, Hi-Def planes, nothing has made the sim stutter so far so I guess I did something right.

 

See, this is what is driving me nuts.. I'm stuttering like CRAZY. I've just tried what you said, still stuttering, but the crazy thing is that I'm achieving around 30 FPS, with a random dip to 16 every now and then.. 

Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that I've got Fiber Frame at 0.01?

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Many thanks for the Honest feedback, Snglecoil appreciate what you say...I would be the first to admit that frustration with P3d in the past did get my back up I just thought that everything going forward with anew company would make things better...and it has! But just not there yet for me...maybe!

 

I don't like responding to people without names, but your thread Title is worded such that you are implying people will provide a dis-honest opinion -- ... in other words you've pre-judge someone before they even read the thread.  I'm assuming that was NOT your intent, but to get more reliable responses usually requires a more tactful title.

 

From your first post it sounds like you've already judged P3D so I must admit I'm not really sure what this thread is about?  If I were to hazard a guess the real intent of this thread is to ask for help on how to resolve stutters you are experiencing?

 

Stutters can be caused by MANY factors from hardware issues, to UEFI/BIOS settings, to OS issues, to graphics settings, to GPU drivers, to 3rd party content, etc. etc. ... it's the needle in the hay stack type of question that has more than one answer and/or combination of answers.

 

But in order to get an understanding of how you define stutters, download this video I made here from a BASE v2.5 install (no add-ons): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw0Q-fAfEZwyMjBza1F0elpRR0E/view?usp=sharing  (warning: it's 1GB download).  The reason I say download and not watch via YouTube is to remove the possibility of slow ISP, and/or slow YouTube servers, and/or browser video playback issues.  Key is to download and playback the file local via Windows Media player.

 

How you respond to that download video will be key before proceeding with suggestions.

 

Cheers, Rob.

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I don't like responding to people without names, but your thread Title is worded such that you are implying people will provide a dis-honest opinion -- ... in other words you've pre-judge someone before they even read the thread.  I'm assuming that was NOT your intent, but to get more reliable responses usually requires a more tactful title.

 

From your first post it sounds like you've already judged P3D so I must admit I'm not really sure what this thread is about?  If I were to hazard a guess the real intent of this thread is to ask for help on how to resolve stutters you are experiencing?

 

Stutters can be caused by MANY factors from hardware issues, to UEFI/BIOS settings, to OS issues, to graphics settings, to GPU drivers, to 3rd party content, etc. etc. ... it's the needle in the hay stack type of question that has more than one answer and/or combination of answers.

 

But in order to get an understanding of how you define stutters, download this video I made here from a BASE v2.5 install (no add-ons): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw0Q-fAfEZwyMjBza1F0elpRR0E/view?usp=sharing  (warning: it's 1GB download).  The reason I say download and not watch via YouTube is to remove the possibility of slow ISP, and/or slow YouTube servers, and/or browser video playback issues.  Key is to download and playback the file local via Windows Media player.

 

How you respond to that download video will be key before proceeding with suggestions.

 

Cheers, Rob.

 

No disrespect Rob, but you're talking about the OP pre-judging? ..... there's a stack of pre-judgements in your post above.   I didn't realized requests for advice had to be so qualified and politically correct!

 

Ok, OP, here's my experience ;-

 

I've made 3 attempts at migrating from FSX to P3D, firstly to v2.0, (Dec 2013), then to v2.2, and then last week to v2.5

 

The first two were very short attempts, spoiled by awful performance with an AMD/ATI card. I would not recommend P3D to AMD/ATI graphics card users - not even to my worst enemy!

 

Now with v2,5, I am using an nVidia card and things are much better.   I'm using a i7 2600 and a GTX 670 2GB.  I certainly wouldn't want any lesser of a GPU or CPU than this setup, with P3D.     I am using medium settings in P3D, cockpit shadows set to medium quality, to terrain shadows etc.  No volumetric fog.   With all the bells and whistles enabled, P3D is just a slide show on my level of system.

 

It's a lovely simulator, the colours are more vibrant, the lighting is better.  It's not all good though - the ATC and Kneeboard pop-up dialogue boxes are nothing short of vile.  Unlike FSX they're not transparent, and unlike FSX, they slightly pause the sim, momentarily (microsecond - but noticeable) - at least on my system.

 

The options/settings GUI is still more clunky and 'fudged' than FSX also, IMHO.

 

With a mainly vanilla installation, it was very stable for me.  With FTX Global it was still fine. Using a full fat Orbx Region, BANG! ... straight into OOM land .... even when flying an Alabeo.

 

Addon airports again have led to some OOMs, CTDs and instability, where I wouldn't have issues with the same airports in FSX.

 

A lot of people say that they see P3D as a GA simulator, but I believe it's better for the opposite; tubeliner work.    The Aerosoft A318-A321 models run fantastically in it, and as above, it handles more generic scenery (like FTXG or FTXGV) better than it does uber-detailed Orbx regions.

 

Anyway, all things considered (including having to purchase some licences again for P3D, that you already purchased for FSX), I personally don't think it's quite worth the move yet.  I am keeping it installed this time (unlike the last two occasions) but FSX is re-installed and flying in full fat Orbx regions in the older sim never gives me OOMs and I get higher frames, better smoothness and stability.

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All I can say is, start here, and tweak until you are stable. Don't forget the Nvidia settings...

 

http://www.robainscough.com/Prepar3D_Settings_2.html

 

My P3D2.5 runs beautifully with Rob's "high" settings in full-fat Orbx with Carabeo/A2A/RealAir + REX/ASN. Sometimes my fps dips into the teens, but I'm still smooth. I am running a i73930/GTX680.

 

Thanks Rob!!!!!

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Nobody is completely honest.  Not even to themselves.  Brains just don't work that way.  So just be nice.  Or, your version of it.

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No disrespect Rob, but you're talking about the OP pre-judging? ..... there's a stack of pre-judgements in your post above.   I didn't realized requests for advice had to be so qualified and politically correct!

 

Craig, there is no PC requirement so long as you keep within the ToS of AVSIM.  

 

I'm just trying to help the OP get possible solutions to his issues with P3D ... one way to get more helpful answers is to not immediately assume someone is going to provide a dis-honest opinion -- why qualify with "honest opinion"?  Reading the original thread the OP has an issue with stutters in P3D which IMHO isn't related to the OP's Title at all ... perhaps a title more suited to OP's desires would bring more helpful suggestions and even a possible solution ... "unable to resolve stutters in P3D".

 

My "post" judgement was applied AFTER the OP's post and based entirely on that post -- so yes, people are judged on what they post -- just as I, you, anyone gets judged -- it's what we humans do.  What stack of "Pre-judgements" are you referring to?

 

Cheers, Rob. 

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Honest opinion? It's amazing.  

 

Dishonest opinion? It's crap.

 

Seriously though, if you need help with stutters just ask as there are many causes and many solutions.  The one I'm most familiar with is processor over-usage due to background apps, livestreams, etc. running along side my sim or the dreaded "Aggressive Scenery Slider Syndrome" (ASSS for short) :lol: .  When my processor gets to 100% (not core 0 but entire processor) I start to get hitches.

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I have to drop texture resolution to 1m (yes it's not as clear and pretty) to run without stutters in nice payware planes.

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Two changes made my P3Dv2.5 work very well for me:  set AffinityMask correctly, mine is at 14, and set the FIBER_FRAME_FRACTION=0.01.  Before these two changes I also have stutters in turns.  I just rebought my PMDG 777 amd 737 licenses.  FSX is gone from my system, I can no longer use a bunch of add-ons because the developers don't want to make them compatible nor provide a P3D version, but I am fine with that because in P3D, I have correct shadow, no autogen poping etc.  There is a cost : you will loose add-ons but the benefits also cannot be ignored.  Good luck.

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The Fiber Frame Fraction tweak was what was causing a lot of my stutters. Deleted it from my .cfg and the sim smoothed out significantly. 

This was using PMDG's 777 and various large addon airports, like FSDT's KLAX, and T2G's VHHH.

EDIT: To be specific, it was setting it at 0.01 that messed up my sim with stutters.. 0.33 was a good value and was relatively smooth. Deleting the entry completely was the smoothest result, for me.

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I have found that stutters can be had and taken care of by paying attention to your fps slider - for me heavy hitters such as CS777 - PMDG777 need to have slider at unlimited - for small GA aircraft you have to search for the non-stutter until you find it and can take some time for instance many Carenado aircraft run at 48 fps and stutters are gone try it you will see what I mean - that 48fps is not written in stone that number will vary depending on which aircraft you are using

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I have found that stutters can be had and taken care of by paying attention to your fps slider 

 

I did not know that, thanks for the heads-up. Will look at that.

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