FSX-MS How Do You Use Default ATC?

[SteveW 1,792]

http://fsonline.dk/forum/viewforum.php?f=4

Thanks Jay!

[Mithras 87]

Yes, I always wonder about route; high altitude airways seems logical, but like you say, a direct route gives you the numbers you need to count down to your destination. I do use the Airtrack app on my ipad for airliner instrumentation, though, which does provide flight length, time in air, time at destination, % of flight flown, etc, which is very very neat.

 

Another reason to go direct is that I can refile my flight plan in mid flight (say if I have been cut off by ATC) and my autopilot will follow the flight plan from its current position. I've found that using plans with multiple waypoints, the autopilot wants to turn to waypoint number one and fly the route in sequence ....

[lzamm 148]

 

 

a direct route gives you the numbers you need to count down to your destination

 

Default GPS (or one of its look-alikes) will give you that for a full route, on the FPL page.

 

 

 

...the autopilot wants to turn to waypoint number one and fly the route in sequence ...

 

Also on the FPL page, if you hit the cursor button (right knob centre) you can scroll down to the waypoint you want to go to and activate the leg by pressing MENU.

 

There are reasons to fly DTO (in my case, mostly related to laziness), but sorry these aren't!

[Bjoern 1,177]

Yes you do need FS Editvoicepack to apply it. I had to do it that way, so I didn't affect others modifications Here's the link.

 

http://library.avsim.net/search.php?SearchTerm=Thomas+Cain&CatID=root&Go=Search

 

Neat! From what I can determine, there are little overlaps with David Atkinson's EVP mods (from Flightsim).

 

 

- Edit:

Correction...no overlaps. Even better!

 

 

 

 

Now that I have gone to the dark side and only fly the Aerosoft Airbus (sorry Bjoern, I remember you backing me up when I was fighting the freeware aircraft corner  )

 

Boooo! Booooooooooooooooo! *Throws tomatoes*

[TurboTomato 90]

 

Boooo! Booooooooooooooooo! *Throws tomatoes*

 

 

Don't worry though, I am paying for my sins!

 

Typical evening before I bought a payware aircraft:

 

1. Put small offspring to bed.

2. Have dinner.

3. Fire up the PC whilst my better half watches TV or reads etc.

4. Choose a PA320 to fly, choose route via built in planner.

5. Follow ATC, fly route, accelerate time if I want to do the landing, save it and do it tomorrow, probably former.

6. Land, feel satisfied.

7. Go to bed.

 

After payware purchase:

 

1. Put small offspring to bed.

2. Have dinner.

3. Fire up the PC whilst my better half watches TV or reads etc.

4. Launch PFPX and load calc.

5. Do flight planning.

6. Launch P3D and start flight. Must be 'cold and dark' otherwise I'm not a pro 

7. Spend an age inputting the flight plan, performance calcs etc etc whilst my better half asks why the man keeps saying 'oeufs' with a French accent - it's not, I have a French accent sound set and he's just saying 'off' 

8. Take off without consulting ATC  :o , following SIDs etc, occasionally dodging oncoming planes when there's a conflict between PFPX and AI arrival runway.

9. Get to TOC, and realise that it's about 5 mins from bedtime.

10. Close down everything (saving flight doesn't work).

11. Go to bed frustrated from not being able to complete anything more than a hop from Gatwick to CDG.

 

Tonight I will be attempting EGKK-LPFR for literally the 6th time I think, but I'm not holding out much hope. However it is all carried out in the most high quality manner now I have payware

[MadDog 353]

Unlike your Flightplan which accounts for course deviation due to wind, The approach vectors do not. So as you deviate from the virtual course it plotted when you reach a point, usually a 4nm deviation, ATC will re-vector you back on the virtual plotted course. This is why it seems ATC is issuing unnecessary vectoring instructions.

 

So True!  Another issue is that the vector code is not tuned to allow for slight corrections... where a 15 degree turn would be sufficient to get you back to the imaginary course line, FSX will give you whopping 45-60 degree turns.  Hence the infamous FSX S-turns.  The way I compensate is that once I've been vectored into the pattern (downwind, base, etc.) and receive a vector, I turn in that direction (but only by 15-20 degrees).  ATC doesn't complain at all that I'm not flying the exact heading issued and it results in A LOT less vectors (Just remember that for the obvious turns to base and final, the issued heading should be flown).

[tf51d 284]

Neat! From what I can determine, there are little overlaps with David Atkinson's EVP mods (from Flightsim).

 

 

 

 

 

- Edit:

 

Correction...no overlaps. Even better!

 

 

 

Thanks! I wasn't aware of David's Mods, as I spend most of my time on AVSIM. Looks like he covers VFR flight pretty well! My mods are geared more towards IFR, So both modes of flight are covered now with EVP! Cool!

[Pe11e 812]

If annoying vectoring can be fixed in default ATC I wouldn't use PFE or RC4 in any occasion, especially PFE because of the annoying flight plan convert and prepare process. Sometimes ATC will vector me to circle 15 minutes around the airport, arrival was 10 minutes late causing negative points either in FsP or FsCaptain.

[Richard Sennett 2,499]

Useless post but I didnt know we had a working default atc program - news to me

[Patco Lch 1,485]

No that's "AISeparation" "AI Smooth" will send AI too close into holding patterns.

 

 

 

Actually it's very logical once you understand what it's doing! It will vector you on a parallel course to the runway, either upwind or downwind  Depending on your direction of approach. At around 27nm from runway threshold it will turn you on basically a Base leg Then it will give you the final approach instruction that will put you on a angled course to the localizer. There's a problem though. Unlike your Flightplan which accounts for course deviation due to wind, The approach vectors do not. So as you deviate from the virtual course it plotted when you reach a point, usually a 4nm deviation, ATC will re-vector you back on the virtual plotted course. This is why it seems ATC is issuing unnecessary vectoring instructions.

Interesting explanation. My issue is it starts the vectors too soon. Correct me if i'm wrong but in RW i don't beleve vectors start until you are handed off to approch control.

The default ATC achieves something no addon ATC gets close to. The voices are pretty decent. They might be US-only accents. They might vector you the long way round on approach. They might use a few non-standard phrases. As said above, you have to dip in and out when flying SIDS, STARS and updated approaches. But none of the addon ATC packages come anywhere near to the default voice quality.

 

It's all to do with very careful editing of phrases. It is extremely difficult to make triggered voices sound natural, but it is possible. The default ATC is very clever at making sure single digit numbers or repeated numbers do not come out robotic. The inflections in the voices are miles better than any addon. The volumes are consistent - nothing jumps out. Number strings are smoothly expressed and there is a natural fall at the end of phrases.

 

Compare and contrast to every so-far published ATC addon which have some excellent procedures spoiled by poorly edited, poorly recorded, ill-thought-out voices, which sound amateur, unconvincing and not in the least authentic, or worse still those horrible voice packs of the type that make YouTube how-to videos sound comically naff! For me the voice quality (and by that I mean authentically low-fi and actually sounds like a pilot/controller) is the most important aspect, without which I'd rather just see text-based instructions.

There is a freeware called editvoice pak that will speed up default ATC to different levels of choice making it sound even better. You can also choose FAA or ICAO phrseology.

[tf51d 284]

I agree they made a good effort with regional accents. But the problem is not enough care was taken with voice editing. For example if you say "112 decimal 95", the repeated "ones" must have a different, or at least neutral inflexion. The last digit "five" has to be voiced lower in note because it is the last digit. Thus every single number or string of numbers has to be recorded then played back with very detailed care, otherwise the "Up" inflections of some words, especially at the end of a phrase, sound completely unnatural. It does take a very long time and intelligent editing to make voices sound convincing so I'm not saying it is easy.

 

Have to disagree with you here, for me PFE sounds very fluid, and natural sounding, and the accents do add to the experience, especially flying outside the US. When you tried PFE, did you just have the voices that came with it, or did you purchase the Voice expansion pack? Also if the latter, did you also install the free expansion pack from their forum (XPACK2)? This one really makes a difference. If you just had the original voices, then I can understand your comments, as they weren't as refined as the voice packs!

[Capt Speirs 52]

Useless post but I didnt know we had a working default atc program - news to me

Not sure if that is sarcasm or...? Name one ATC that does work, not close, not almost, 100%? The weakest part of FSX and P3D is ATC. When one becomes available, that will revolutionize FSX.

[Richard Sennett 2,499]

Not sure if that is sarcasm or...? Name one ATC that does work, not close, not almost, 100%? The weakest part of FSX and P3D is ATC. When one becomes available, that will revolutionize FSX.

 

Sarcasm all the way - atc is useless

[robert young 2,897]

Have to disagree with you here, for me PFE sounds very fluid, and natural sounding, and the accents do add to the experience, especially flying outside the US. When you tried PFE, did you just have the voices that came with it, or did you purchase the Voice expansion pack? Also if the latter, did you also install the free expansion pack from their forum (XPACK2)? This one really makes a difference. If you just had the original voices, then I can understand your comments, as they weren't as refined as the voice packs!

 

Yes I tried them. The procedures are pretty good. It's not so much the voices themselves, but the lack of careful editing of voices so they flow naturally without volume spikes, repeats of the same numbers with upward inflections etc etc. Inadequate though the default ATC is, the voices are very well put together.

Sarcasm all the way - atc is useless

 

Well some say so Richard, but in fact you can make the default ATC much more flexible as you fly. For example the infamous "vectors" to final on the standard (wrong) default procedures can easily be overcome. All you do is refuse the ILS runway then request a different approach, but actually using the same runway in the end. Not always, but mostly, there is an alternative approach with transitions, somewhat close to a standard STAR arrival with tacked on transition to the IAF or FAF, so you can avoid being vectored for miles downwind. It's not perfect but neither are the addon atcs.

[regis9 4,044]

I love this thread, lots of great ideas to help default atc do what i want, thanks all!

 

Like many others, i dabble in atc addons - RC4 off and on, PFE very briefly (that was one purchase i really regret) - but i always end up coming back to default atc with a heavily modified voicepack. For me it's the ease of use, flexibility, and wide range of callsigns that do it for me.