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Jim Young

Online Pirates in the UK Could Face 10 Years

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I found the article at the following link interesting - http://www.techspot.com/news/61434-online-pirates-uk-could-soon-face-up-10.html .  AVSIM does not condone piracy at all and when it becomes known a member is involved in software piracy, we immediately ban the member permanently. I'm just bringing this topic to everyone's attention and I would hope no one begins discussions about how great stealing software is and glorifying pirates.

 

Best regards,

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I would hope no one begins discussions about how great stealing software is and glorifying pirates.

 

Why stop at 10 years? Why not 25?

 

Cheers!

 

Luke

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Its amazing when you think about it,  You can murder someone in Ireland and be out in 7 years,  Rape maybe 4/5 years.  

 

Piracy = 10 years,  doesn't make sense  

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Why stop at 10 years? Why not 25?

 

Cheers!

 

Luke

 

Because the sentence for murder in the UK can be less than 15 years.

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Its amazing when you think about it,  You can murder someone in Ireland and be out in 7 years,  Rape maybe 4/5 years.  

 

Piracy = 10 years,  doesn't make sense  

Mustn't talk like that Poppet. It's regarded as heresy. :smile: Mugging someone (robbery with violence) You'd be unlucky to get 6 months.

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I hate to point it out but the second paragraph (emphasis mine):

 

 

 

The government’s proposed measures are mainly targeted at the distributors of pirated content; UK police are keen to point out that small-time downloaders are unlikely to face jail terms. The proposals have been prompted in part by an independent review that found that the “vast majority of online copyright offenders have links to further criminality.”

 

Nothing much to see here then.  In fact from the consultation press release itself (emphasis mine):

 

 

 

The government has today (18 July 2015) launched a consultation on plans to increase the maximum sentence for commercial-scale online copyright infringement from 2 to 10 years imprisonment. Proposals set out in the consultation will bring penalties for online offences into line with equivalent offences relating to the copyright infringement of physical goods.

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For those that aren't familiar with the UK judicial system, the majority of convicts only serve half the sentence they are handed by the courts.

 

I very much doubt anybody is ever going to serve ten years for software piracy. I could go and get steaming drunk now, jump in a car and run a child over, killing them... and get a lot less than 10 years.

 

But hey-ho.... corporate lobbying is a wonderful thing, isn't it?

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For those that aren't familiar with the UK judicial system, the majority of convicts only serve half the sentence they are handed by the courts.

 

That is true. but we are comparing sentences - not the time spent in prison.

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Mustn't talk like that Poppet. It's regarded as heresy. :smile: Mugging someone (robbery with violence) You'd be unlucky to get 6 months.

Very true,  the whole system is mad :(

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Just another example that corporations are taking over.

Life and health have very low value these days.

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I'm just bringing this topic to everyone's attention

------------------------

 

Thanks Jim.

 

I think we have to look at the big picture though.  Firstly this proposal of a 10 year jail term is not aimed at your average spotty teen who downloads a few music tracks etc every so often.  This quote from the BBC news website makes things a little clearer >

 

"The proposed measures are mainly targeted at the distributors of pirated content - the people creating copies of movies, sometimes before release, and uploading them to be downloaded by thousands upon thousands.  It's not, the police are clear to point out, aimed at small-time downloaders - although there are other ways and means to prevent that too (i.e. site blocking etc)."

----------------------------

.

Every time this 'piracy' issue is raised in the UK parliament there is always massive opposition from ISPs and Internet rights groups who question the influence of the  music and film industry in the USA.

 

I repair PCs for a living and it never ceases to amaze me how endemic torrent downloading is ..basically nearly every PC I see used by a teenager, is affected.

And parents often aren't aware of it.

 

In addition, UK jails are full to bursting point right now and there are regular calls in the press to find alternatives to custodial sentences. So I very much doubt that judges will lock 'pirate' offenders away for a 10 year sentence (which in reality is 5 years or less because sentences are automatically halved in the UK) Some rapists and child molesters have over the past few years been given non custodial sentences to help ease prison overcrowding, its that bad.

 

I would hope no one begins discussions about how great stealing software is and glorifying pirates.

 

No I'm not saying that Jim.  All I'm saying is, its a complex topic. To many people 'online piracy' is 'stealing, but to many others, including some top rated musicians such as Neil Young and Liam Gallagher, its like listening to the radio, or taking a copy of a cassette tape or CD. You end up with a copy but the original is still there, it hasn't been 'stolen', as they say.   Anyway thats the other sides' argument, plus they reckon that illegal downloads actually help to stimulate sales of music. >

https://www.upvenue.com/article/1590-musician-stances-on-music-piracy.html

 

Here's a more balanced article to the 'Online pirates could face 10 years in jail' story:-

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33578180

 

And on a more humorous note: here's a spoof 'anti-piracy' advert from the UK TV comedy series The Peep Show

https://youtu.be/lbo4cFFexRc

 

.

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(...), but to many others, including some top rated musicians such as Neil Young and Liam Gallagher, its like listening to the radio, or taking a copy of a cassette tape or CD. You end up with a copy but the original is still there, it hasn't been 'stolen', as they say.   Anyway thats the other sides' argument, plus they reckon that illegal downloads actually help to stimulate sales of music etc (...)

 

I will neither steal nor illegitimately "copy" software. I hope that removes the ambiguity from the preceding post.

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I will neither steal nor illegitimately "copy" software. I hope that removes the ambiguity from the preceding post.

Hi Ollie,

 

I never mentioned the term 'illegitimately' copying software, in fact I never mentioned software at all.  I was outlining the wider debate in relation to the '10 year jail sentences' story. 

 

Anyway, I would have thought that copies of FSX can be bought so cheaply these days from online stores, and that the price of games from the likes of Steam are so cheap, that your average gamer isnt going to waste their time downloading gigabytes worth of data from a piracy site, only to discover its laced with trojan viruses...

 

http://blogs.norman.com/2013/for-consumption/malware-invades-90-of-pirate-computer-games

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I never mentioned the term 'illegitimately' copying software, in fact I never mentioned software at all. I was outlining the wider debate in relation to the '10 year jail sentences' story.

 

But you wrote;

 

 

 

To many people 'online piracy' is 'stealing, but to many others, including some top rated musicians such as Neil Young and Liam Gallagher, its like listening to the radio, or taking a copy of a cassette tape or CD. You end up with a copy but the original is still there, it hasn't been 'stolen', as they say. Anyway thats the other sides' argument, plus they reckon that illegal downloads actually help to stimulate sales of music. >

 

You encourage people to make their copies of a CD or tape by illegitimately copying them? Or do you know a legitimately way of doing them?

 

When "top rated musicians such as Neil Young and Liam Gallagher" become rich by giving their work away for free.

 

This theard

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Just to add to Gerry's reply, Jim Young wrote in his opening post:

 

(...) and I would hope no one begins discussions about how great stealing software is and glorifying pirates.

(...)

 

In before the lock.

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There is always someone who supports piracy so the lock is inevitable regardless of the rules! butb them the rules don't apply to them!

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Piracy so far is a no-win situation. The more companies are trying to protect their software or add DRM restrictions, the more people are turning to piracy. Piracy is so common in the country I live in, that I'm sometimes surprised anyone would even want to develop downloadable software anymore. However, the more protection added into software the more it alienates real customers, and the company I work for has at least decided that pirates aren't worth the effort, as they'd never have paid for the software in the first place anyway.

 

There's nothing I hate more than people who charge and get rich from other people's work (e.g. Paid file sharing sites), and the sooner people and sites like this disappear, the better. However, it's easy enough to threaten to lock people up, but perhaps they should instead try and address why so many people pirate or turn to illegal sites in the first place (e.g. DRM, unskippable adverts, etc..). The pirates who share stolen content or host illegal sites know and pray on this, and I'm sure if consumers had better options (i.e. Worldwide availability of content, no adverts), they'd be less likely to look for pirated content and more likely to pay for a quality service (Of course, not everyone would, but that's just life). 

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Why stop at 10 years? Why not 25?

 

Unless you were being sarcastic, what do you feel would be an appropriate punishment for true crimes then, such as murder, robbery or rape? 

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...perhaps they should instead try and address why so many people pirate or turn to illegal sites in the first place

 

It's simple - they don't want to pay. Music, films, even flight simulator add-ons are luxuries. No one needs them, so there is no justification for piracy.

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It's simple - they don't want to pay. Music, films, even flight simulator add-ons are luxuries. No one needs them, so there is no justification for piracy.

 

I think you are wrong there. Music piracy have decreased allot nowadays thanks to digital purchase possibilities from i.e. Itunes and Amazon

as well as streaming services like spotify.

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(...) why so many people pirate or turn to illegal sites in the first place (e.g. DRM, unskippable adverts, etc..). (...)

 

Pirating software in order to skip the adverts???

 

Not exactly a convincing ... pretext.

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Jim i find it perplexing that you start a topic and insist that only emphatic agreement ensue.

 

I am not going to condemn or condone piracy but i think that something is very wrong with a system that has criminalized something that previously was only a civil tort.  

This has involved an egregious attack on civil liberties, private companies having access to previously private data and tools from law enforcement agencies, i.e. my tax money enforcing private companies copyright and profits.

 

The situation in the US is utterly abhorrent, i remember reading about a person who was sued for $100,000+, that is beyond the pale it will ruin the rest of their lives, as mentioned above, they would have been better off, breaking into somebodies house, killing them and stealing their belongings.  This situation is ridiculous in the extreme and I fear this is coming to a country near me soon thank to TTIP.

 

Do i think that stealing is wrong, well yes, with caveats; i don't think it is wrong if you are starving and steal food, but media of any description doesn't fit into this category.  Do i think that this is worth throwing away privacy and civil liberties over...hell no!

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Pirating software in order to skip the adverts???

 

It's one of the arguments I see used often and there's no denying that being forced to sit through adverts to watch a movie you've paid for is unfair. I personally don't watch TV because of adverts, and instead rent the stuff I want on iTunes or the Google Play store. Although, product placement inside TV shows and films is now becoming worse and in-your-face now because people are learning to ignore the adverts.


 

 


I think you are wrong there. Music piracy have decreased allot nowadays thanks to digital purchase possibilities from i.e. Itunes and Amazon
as well as streaming services like spotify.

 

Agreed. I know of several people who once pirated but now have turned to paid services. But yes, there are always some people who will never want to pay for anything.

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But hey-ho.... corporate lobbying is a wonderful thing, isn't it?

 

Exactly.

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The proposals have been prompted in part by an independent review that found that the “vast majority of online copyright offenders have links to further criminality.”

 

Absolutely true! The vast majority of people I know who torrent software, music, or movies also drive faster than the speed limit! :lol:

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