Well five stars and the Gold medal for excellence for the PMDG 747 really makes you wonder about these reviews and whether the reviewer reads the PMDG 747 support forum. It's good but not worth five stars at this stage. When I last checked a poll on the PMDG 747 support forum only gave it a 66% highly satisfied vote. Perhaps when the promised patch eventuates (and if wingviews are implemented although that is a personal thing) but not as things stand.Bruceb

I am just a little curious why it seems to be standard practice for "patches" to be issued for these payware a/c - and quite often, quite soon after release. I am not "bashing" here -- merely curious as to why this is so. Surely, the software has been reasonably well tested in a Beta phase before release - I know that there seem to be many so-called Beta testers who frequent this forum. So what is it? Why the need for patches at all?Barry

You have a point, Barry. I also agree that the "Release Version" which was reviewed, had many bugs and at least in that stage it was maybe a bit overrated. Okay, it might have been worth 5 stars for all the other amazing features which overweigh the bugs, but maybe should have waited with the award a bit?Just my 2 cents.

5 Stars, and it's causing a memory leak, gotta love that.Wonder who's payroll the guy that wrote the review was on.

>I am just a little curious why it seems to be standard>practice for "patches" to be issued for these payware a/c ->and quite often, quite soon after release. I am not "bashing">here -- merely curious as to why this is so. Surely, the>software has been reasonably well tested in a Beta phase>before release - I know that there seem to be many so-called>Beta testers who frequent this forum. So what is it? Why the>need for patches at all?>>Barry Perhaps you see software development different than me Barry. Microsoft has an update page that releases patches very often. In fact there is not one "game" on my hard drive that does not have many patches to run. Now before someone runs at me with a Cessna sim, this particular add-on is so much more advanced in everyway that comparing it to such planes does not hold any weight. Fact is this, many so called "bugs" have been proven not to be bugs in the first place. One example, folks running the FS crack exe were experincing some major issues until someone pointed this out. Just because someone claims there are many problems does not mean there is. There was the so called spd with flaps down not in VNAV which was shown to be the way it works in rl, I can site many more. This add-on is complex, to know how everything really works would take the average users many months to learn and even then if he has never sat foot on a rl 744 he would still be going off of other people's opinions for certain items that he could not know firsthand. Another thing to keep in mind, something not modelled or some advanced system that does not work 100% like a users says it should does not mean this add-on is not a fantastic achievement. Sure there are some things that are not right, take the heading issue on the MCP. Can anyone sit here and say that because a few things do not work 100% that this aircraft does not deserve to be rated 5 stars? If that is the standard then certainly no add-on would ever get 5 stars. An add-on is rated for it's overall completeness and for every issue there are 100 other areas without any problem and by the way without anything else created to compare it with. The flight sim community at large seems to have different scales for judgement of add-ons than any other software, and for some strange reason believe they are entitled the world, a perfect modelled 744 for under 100 bucks. It seems to make no difference how long or how great something is, only that it be 100% free from defects and work 100% like a real aircraft in everyway, I find this incredible. And last, there is no such thing as perfect in simulation, even 10 million dollar sims can never reach perfection but for that much money one might have more of a complaint if most systems did not work closer to 100% than spending 55 bucks on a desktop "game". This is my opinion alone, others hold different views and that's really ok with me. Respect each other's right to respectfully disagree without getting personal or attacking and please let's keep our discussions civil for our friends here at Avsim.. [h4]Randy J. Smith[/h4]

There is always going to be complainers. The only problem I have had was the heading select issue. I havent had a single issue other than that. Five stars one star I have enjoyed it. I guess some people wait for reviews to buy but all reviews are subjective. If I was to review it I would rate it high because I have not had any major issues. Just because you read some issues in the forum doesnt mean that the reviewer had those issues. I should also mention I have all my add-ons on two computers a laptop and desktop and both run without problems. I think alot of problems are brought on by users who screw around with there systems.Anyway I can see this post turning into a flame war and then soon to be locked.

If users didn't have problems with new products, there wouldn't ever be any patches issued. I doubt if most patches are created because users have screwed around with their systems. I think it can usually be shown to be Beta testers missing issues, but the final beta test occurs when the product hits the streets. If you want to by pass this, don't be the first person downloading the new product the evening that it is released. Wait a month or two until the patches are issued, then buy it.

As a software developer myself, and someone who has owned the PMDG747 since the day of release, I just wanted to say that I completely agree with Randy. And also, you can't be very accurate with your appraisal of a product when you only have 5 stars to play with. I personally think it is well worth 5 out of 5 stars, but maybe not 100 out of 100 stars, if you see what I mean.To be honest, I have only had 1 problem ("bug") with the product, and they have it listed as an issue, with a very workable work-around for the moment, which is fine for me. I can't imagine not flying another a/c to be honest. I absolutely love it.I would recommend it to anyone interested in big jets, well worth the money, and for the record, I am not on their payroll!

As I understand the timings, PMSDG released its 747 on 2 August and the patch on 13 August, 11 days later. According to PMDG the patch deals with:1 DIRTO/INTC Freeze bug found (should not freeze anymore when LNAVcaptures and turns to follow course) 2 Found cause for FPS stutters when long flight plans would beinserted in the FMC 3 Erroneous End-Of-Route message when circling-to-land 4 Crash-To-Desktop by PMDGOptions.DLL when exiting FS and not in the747-400 5 Step-To indication now goes blank if step size == 0 6 ALT HOLD porpoising at high altitudes with heavy aircraft 7 Keyboard commands now useable on all PMDG aircraft (737NG and 747400) and storing in their own .ini file 8 When restoring a flight, fuel load is correctly initialized. 9 Fuel mixing logic between CWT and Main1/Main4 during high consumption periods adjusted. 10 GE visual model updated to correct visual distortion of outboard fans. Were none of these known before the model was released on 2 August? If so I'm surprised that some were not picked up during testing- especially 1, 2, 3 and 10.

>5 Stars, and it's causing a memory leak, gotta love that.>>Wonder who's payroll the guy that wrote the review was on.>Paul,Why question someone's integrity because you have problem that most do not? I do not have a memory leak and apparently neither does the reivewer. I'll be sure to skip Seattle ARTCC in my flight planning.Bob...

>As I understand the timings, PMSDG released its 747 on 2>August and the patch on 13 August, 11 days later. According to>PMDG the patch deals with:>>1 DIRTO/INTC Freeze bug found (should not freeze anymore when>LNAV>captures and turns to follow course) >>2 Found cause for FPS stutters when long flight plans would>be>inserted in the FMC >>3 Erroneous End-Of-Route message when circling-to-land >>4 Crash-To-Desktop by PMDGOptions.DLL when exiting FS and not>in the>747-400 >>5 Step-To indication now goes blank if step size == 0 >>6 ALT HOLD porpoising at high altitudes with heavy aircraft >>7 Keyboard commands now useable on all PMDG aircraft (737NG>and 747>400) and storing in their own .ini file >>8 When restoring a flight, fuel load is correctly initialized.>>>9 Fuel mixing logic between CWT and Main1/Main4 during high>consumption periods adjusted. >>10 GE visual model updated to correct visual distortion of>outboard fans. >>Were none of these known before the model was released on 2>August? If so I'm surprised that some were not picked up>during testing- especially 1, 2, 3 and 10. >That is what I can't fiure out either. I buy a payware product, use it on a normal system for 30 minutes and find several bugs. I post the bugs on the appropriate forum and almost immediately, the " I get that too" messages start appearing. Then a week later the patch comes out fixing the bug ( hopefully). How in the world did the Beta people miss a problem that jumps out right in front of you, with minimal use?

The need and speed in which a patch is required is directly related to the number of people included in the beta. A long beta test with 50+ people testing is most likely going to require little, if any, quick patches whereas a beta test with 10 people testing is.I do know of one complex add-on that released without the need for a quick fix patch ;-)(Sorry, just couldn't resist)http://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...BANNER_PAUL.jpg

>>As I understand the timings, PMSDG released its 747 on 2>>August and the patch on 13 August, 11 days later. According>to>>PMDG the patch deals with:>>>>1 DIRTO/INTC Freeze bug found (should not freeze anymore>when>>LNAV>>captures and turns to follow course) >>>>2 Found cause for FPS stutters when long flight plans would>>be>>inserted in the FMC >>>>3 Erroneous End-Of-Route message when circling-to-land >>>>4 Crash-To-Desktop by PMDGOptions.DLL when exiting FS and>not>>in the>>747-400 >>>>5 Step-To indication now goes blank if step size == 0 >>>>6 ALT HOLD porpoising at high altitudes with heavy aircraft >>>>7 Keyboard commands now useable on all PMDG aircraft (737NG>>and 747>>400) and storing in their own .ini file >>>>8 When restoring a flight, fuel load is correctly>initialized.>>>>>>9 Fuel mixing logic between CWT and Main1/Main4 during high>>consumption periods adjusted. >>>>10 GE visual model updated to correct visual distortion of>>outboard fans. >>>>Were none of these known before the model was released on 2>>August? If so I'm surprised that some were not picked up>>during testing- especially 1, 2, 3 and 10. >>>>That is what I can't fiure out either. I buy a payware>product, use it on a normal system for 30 minutes and find>several bugs. I post the bugs on the appropriate forum and>almost immediately, the " I get that too" messages start>appearing. Then a week later the patch comes out fixing the>bug ( hopefully). How in the world did the Beta people miss a>problem that jumps out right in front of you, with minimal>use? >> Since you asked politely Bob, it is simply because beta are builds leading up the the final product, and such each new build with it's build fixes and editions etcf have the real chance of creating newer issues. This is one reason why developers stop messing with a good build even though some minor item might be present. You must also understand that the final public release and it's state rest squarely with the developers and NOT the beta testers. I hope you understand what I am getting at. Truthfully I have little patience for some guys clammering about things they have no knowledge of and one is the constand nagging and whining about the beta process....[h4]Randy J. Smith[/h4]

>The need and speed in which a patch is required is directly>related to the number of people included in the beta. A long>beta test with 50+ people testing is most likely going to>require little, if any, quick patches whereas a beta test with>10 people testing is.>>I do know of one complex add-on that released without the need>for a quick fix patch ;-)>>(Sorry, just couldn't resist)>>http://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/Forum_Banners/DF_BANNER_PAUL.jpg] I'll refrain from this remark Paul.[h4]Randy J. Smith[/h4][/u://http://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/i.... Smith[/h4][/u

It looks nearly impossible to obtain 5 stars these days, so it is a fabulous achievement to have done so.( http://www.avsim.com/pages/commercial_rating_system.html and http://www.avsim.com/pages/aoe_system.html .)Irrespective of the review, I find the PMDG 744 an exceptionally good product (without the interim 'update') and excellent value for money.I was lucky enough to have purchased it on the first day and have not looked back since.Regards.Michael