>C'mon...AVSIM is "in bed" with PMDG. This is not the first>time that a review was given favoring something that didn't>deserve it.That's absurd.

I think the PMDG deserves to win only because some users are not experiencing these issues, although I am and have been unable to complete a flight. In terms of setting the standard, hands down the Queen did this. LDS is a great airplane, but in terms of VC functionality it is a step behind. It is also not as complicated as the 744 systems are. The gauges are amazingly smooth in the Queen and just a notch below in the LDS.Personally I don't have a problem with the winner.

>>That could be,and probably I will wind up buying his>aircraft>>eventually, especially considering all the happy users that>>are contributing to this thread.>>>>>>Although I'll probably be buying the PDMG 744 and the LD767,>to go along with my recently purchased PDMG737NG series. I've>learned one thing since I opted to start purchaseing addons.>That is read the reviews both positive and negative; also give>the product time to mature.(I work in hardware/software>development and QA).>>My biggest problem after puchasing the Aeroworx B200 was which>addon to buy next. As much as I wanted t jump in and buy the>PDMG 744; it needed more time to mature (the money is not>really an isse)the LD767 is getting rave reviews but I've been>eyeing the PDMG737NG since last year of 2004 when I had a pc>that could not run it properly. Now I have the horsepower to>run all sims properly, now I need time to learn the systems.>So I chose the PDMG737NG first so that I could learn the FMC>(I think at least on boeing planes they are the same)flying>short hops until the holiday season when I will have more time>while on 3 weeks vacation.>>I guess what I'm trying to say is I will buy all of the top>userconsumer rated addons. But only as they move into that>stage of maturity that gives me 89.9% of flight environment>enjoyment. This does not mean they will be free of all>bugs.(no software is BELIEVE me, we just ship with as minimal>as possible)>As far as awards go; the queen really should give the crown to>the lady in waiting(LD767)since she is more prepared at this>stage ;-)>I feel the same about buying new aircraft. The first people that buy something can wrestle with the remaining bugs, kinda like buying a brand new house, vs one that has already been debugged. . I have decided to wait awhile, when buying newly released prducts, and let the dust settle before getting out my credit card. The other side of the coin is that I now have two 300 page books on flying the 737, that I got this at the convention this week, and I was reading them on flight back to Atlanta. I have ALOT.... to learn on the 737, and I have a feeling that focusing on one aircraft, will make me a better pilot, rather than switching from one to another. So for now, I will probably be driving the 737NG around for quite a while. It's a great aircraft, so that won't be too difficult..... :)

Agree 100% on that and I keep saying that if I bought the LDS at 40 the PMDG (that I also have) is not a $55 product.I think the only thing that goes in favor of the 744 is that the LDS panel is too similar to its FS2002 version.Other than that, the PMDG panel.bmp is poor IMO + the fact that the LDS is way easier on CPU load.Although I consider the PMDG a very good addon my vote would have gone to the LDS for those reasons + other.Leo

>>The other side of the coin is that I now have two 300 page>books on flying the 737, that I got this at the convention>this week, and I was reading them on flight back to Atlanta. >I have ALOT.... to learn on the 737, and I have a feeling that>focusing on one aircraft, will make me a better pilot, rather>than switching from one to another. So for now, I will>probably be driving the 737NG around for quite a while. It's>a great aircraft, so that won't be too difficult..... :)>Yes I agree with you on settling on learning the one bird for a while. I'm thinking about getting those books you mentioned; and really digging into the 737. Once I'm an accomplished B737 Captain ;-) I'll rate/tech up to the LD767 then PDMG744. The thing is the B737 is more suited to shorter flights and flying into some of the regional airports. Most of my time is short for flying when not on vacation :-(.Hey thanks for recommending FSNavigatior! It will allow you 20 fs9 sessions(full featured)before you have to register, I think I'll be buying this one for christmas. Very nice program, to create flightplans and xport to PDMG or FS9

Compared to everything out there, the PMDG 747 and LDS 767 are neck-to-neck. So with either one winning the award I'm happy. Although I love that DF727..... :) The King Air is excellent as well. I think the awards fell out reasonably.

The PMDG 744 is simply better to me than the LDS 767. The latter is very good indeed, but the award seems fair to me in a contest between these two.Haven't used the Flight 1 727, so don't know about that. Very good too by all accounts.Michael

>C'mon...AVSIM is "in bed" with PMDG. This is not the first>time that a review was given favoring something that didn't>deserve it. When does PIC 767 need an award to be great? Both PMDG and LDS are FAR from perfection. They will never be perfect and people in the know can post things about each product that could be done better. In the end both offer us a closer view than anything else done for the aircraft each represent. This constant fiction between users of both aircraft don't do the comunity any good, if anything we should be thankful that PMDG and LDS raise the bar in flight sim add-ons for other to follow. As a long time LDS user I can say that it deserves some type of life time achievement award because prior to PMDG converting to MSFS no other aircraft add-on came close to system replication. PIC 767 WAS the bar. To quibble at PMDG because it has some issues does PMDG a diservice. They are known for fixing things and are working very hard to get things addressed unlike some other developers who release and forget their products (Most of you know who). Even with it's faults the PMDG 747 is a marvel and with the new patch will be that much better. This has nothing to do with PIC 767 and never has. So I ask each and everyone of you who feel they need to belittle LDS or PMDG over an award to step back and and appreciate where these developers have given us. On a personal note, if the PMDG offering had had the developement time frame as the LDS offering we might not be having this conversation. As many of you know the LDS was a FS2000 product and have had 5 years to get to it's current condition. Give PMDG a little breathing room in this regard if you want to be fair. I commend Wade and team for an outstanding product, one which I use today and one that has brought countless hours of enjoyment to me and thousands of other serious flight simmers around the globe, WELL DONE! [h4]Randy J. Smith[/h4]AMD 64 4000+|ASUS K8V DELUXE Socket 939|SAPPHIRE ATI X800XT PE{AGP}|MUNCHKIN 3200|80 gig SATA|DELL 1905FP 19" LCD|TRACKir PRO|

My planes still look and fly the same even after the awards were handed out. I guess its good for their egos and will look great plastered all over their next products advertising page. Ive never been into awards but you can usually write off the trip, pick up some good freebies and belly up to a open bar.

Well I think both aircraft are suberb. When the 767 came out I bought it straight away and as a previous PIC767 user I knew what to expect. However, the lack of sids/stars was a dissapointment right away and when I eventually had a bunch of them loaded the FMC crawled to a halt as I was selecting arrivals. However, that said I flew it a great deal and loved it and still do. Now I also bought the PMDG 747 when it first came out and as a PMDG737 user I knew what to quality to expect. I have not been disspointed so far. I have been around the world at least twice in it and have not had many problems at all, the frame rates are excellent. The flight model is very good and the LOC capture, the best I've seen. But the one thing that I do love is that on the rare occasions that I have had a CTD, wen I restore the flight using Autosave, I am back running immediately as I was with all the info in the FMC. When this has happened to me before with other aircraft I have lost all the FMC data. But not any more!As far as flying goes, they are neck and neck. However if I had to choose between them for an award at this years AVSIM conference I would have gone for the 767 only on the basis that it's been out longer during the year than the PMDG 747 which isn't perfect yet and will be patched in the near future but as the award is for the previous 12 months I believe it should have gone to the LDS team who have kept me entertained with their FS products for some years now!Well done both teams anyway and Aeroworx too. I have the King Air as well and that is also a superb peice of work.CheersTimhttp://members.chello.nl/t.westnutt/realair.gif

The PMDG 747 looks tops. I think the 3D panel looks especially great. I haven't bought it though, because it doesn't have a money back guarantee. 2 years ago I would have bought it but Flight1 have spoiled me with their money back guarantee (which I haven't had to use because the products I have bought are fantastic). If I can have a money back guarantee on Level D 767, Aeroworx B200, and ATR72, which are all excellent aircraft, I'm not going to risk my money on an aircraft without it. Maybe AVSIM doesn't take this into account when choosing their winners, but it certainly makes Level D the winner in my view. It's a no brainer; if you like heavy iron, get Level D. If you don't like it, get your money back... there is no risk.Mike

If the Avsim Staff thinks the PMDG 747-400 is the winner, let it be so...we where not invited to vote on this award! I think their 737NG (I bought the 737-800/900 CD from Aerosoft) is a clear winner and represents this Boeing Aircraft to a high degree. I just wish they would be a bit more friendly like Flight 1 (Dreamfleet) and less standoffish to their customer base instead of ignoring many questions that have been posted on their website. For instance, many (including myself and one of their previous employees) have asked about the domestic "D" version that was supposed to be included in the initial release (at least 1-2 month ago) but was dropped for no apparent reason...I think a message from maybe Mr. Randazzo would be appropriate in this matter. I really want to purchase this product...Darryl

We don't need to hear anything from Randazzo. Congratulations to PMDG on winning.

This type of thread on how PMDG responds to their customers with the out of memory problems, and stuttering issues is why I think they don't deserve an award at this stage for their 744.http://pmdg.forumsplace.com/post-19127.html#19127

>your loss>>>Gary Hayes>Level-D Simulations Development Team>No im not a "real" pilot, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn>Express last night.>>P4 3.0ghz w/HT & FSB..Radeon X850XT 256MB..1 gig PC3200 DDR>RAM..Sound Blaster Audigy w/5.1 THXYeah, I just don't understand that assement either. However, impressions are impresssions. Like with music, it is amazing how we take for granted that visuals leave the same impression on everyone. Color-blindness notwithstanding, some people really do just "see" things differently, professional or no.Personally, I see zero difference between the clarity of the PMDG 747 and the LDS 767 in terms of the CRT/LCD MFDs being modelled.