Dave,Isearched for the 'TU-112' on the Samdim site but couln't find that model?Did you mean the '114'?Dave T. .........On the lovely warm Devon Riviera and active 'FlightSim User's Group' member at http://www.flightsimgrpuk.free-online.co.uk/

Been thinking about this a little more and to give some credit to Avsim (and PMDG), you could make the arguement that PMDG has a good history of patching their products and the 744 will likely be patched in the coming months so that the current bugs are fixed. Under this scenario I guess Avsim felt that a patched 744 is better than a patched 767. I can see their position.Mark.

Maybe what we need then is something like the People's Choice awards. Even better, maybe we should avoid any sort of "top dog" award.Maybe this was already said in San Diego, but it needs saying here. This last year has left us positively awash in high-quality add-ons offering a wide range of stunning new innovations and features. So many, in fact, that they have overwhelmed me...made me take much for granted...and made me forget how much more advanced things are in our little hobby than even a year or two ago. Consider what the last year has brought us:We have new high-fidelity simulations of advanced integrated panels like the ATR 72, B767, B747, and ERJ 145, and also of great steam-driven but complex planes like the B727, B200 KingAir, the DC-3, and the Howard 500. The warbird fan can choose between the Supermarine Spitfire, P-51 Mustang, F-104 Starfighter, or B-29 Superfort among many.We have a platter-full of high-fidelity guages now available. Need a Sandel 3308 in your plane? How 'bout a Garmin 530? A Litton 91 Inertial Nav unit complete down to the error codes? A KLN-90? Most real pilots would have a hard time distinguising these guages and their operation from the real thing. And then we have sonic boom effects, pushback controllers, you name it. There's even an add-on with a working ballistic parachute recovery system this year.And make no mistake about it, this was the "Year of the Virtual Cockpit," with a host of add-on makers bringing us for the first time fully-functional VCs that give a new sense of the "feel" of being on a flight deck without the usual slide show. Add to that software and hardware that make that virtual cockpit environment come alive...innovative solutions that can pan the virtual cockpit by tracking mouse or even head movement.We have add-ons that create a dynamic and visually stunning weather environment that I would not have imagined possible on a PC even a year ago. Streamlined live ATC integration is a reality, as well as advanced automated ATC. Other add-ons can put the rest of a flightdeck crew there beside you. And before you even fire up the sim, high-qulity flight planning software allows you to generate a flight plan and fuel plan worthy of a commercial dispatcher.22 years ago I was an instructor pilot in the Air Force teaching basic students to fly the T-38 Talon. The sim capabilities on my desktop today absolutely eclipse the best simulation tools available then at any price. I wish I'd have had half of the tools available today in our hobby back when we were training the warriors that won the Cold War. (But I'll let the other guys keep their Captain Sim stuff)All that said, I'm not sure any more what purpose is served by trying to single out one or two developers for an award. This year's additions warranted a truckload of awards. And a few gongs, too.Cheers, gentlemen (and ladies)Bob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-V L-300Santiago de Chile

Great post, Bob!Tero

Its almost as if being around too long actually hurts your chances of winning.I'm not quibbling with the selection, but it just didn't seem that the PMDG 747 was even around long enough to be eligible for this years awards. And perhaps they should have been eligible for next year instead. When was it released, back in August, right ? The Avsim review of it came out like 2 weeks before the convention.Whereas Level-D has been around most of the year (late Feb release), and the PMDG being new still has a bit of a buzz, while the LevelD product's buzz has long since past.Just wondering if they have a cut-off date of eligibility.Regards.Ernie.

>That could be,and probably I will wind up buying his aircraft>eventually, especially considering all the happy users that>are contributing to this thread.>>Although I'll probably be buying the PDMG 744 and the LD767, to go along with my recently purchased PDMG737NG series. I've learned one thing since I opted to start purchaseing addons. That is read the reviews both positive and negative; also give the product time to mature.(I work in hardware/software development and QA).My biggest problem after puchasing the Aeroworx B200 was which addon to buy next. As much as I wanted t jump in and buy the PDMG 744; it needed more time to mature (the money is not really an isse)the LD767 is getting rave reviews but I've been eyeing the PDMG737NG since last year of 2004 when I had a pc that could not run it properly. Now I have the horsepower to run all sims properly, now I need time to learn the systems. So I chose the PDMG737NG first so that I could learn the FMC (I think at least on boeing planes they are the same)flying short hops until the holiday season when I will have more time while on 3 weeks vacation.I guess what I'm trying to say is I will buy all of the top userconsumer rated addons. But only as they move into that stage of maturity that gives me 89.9% of flight environment enjoyment. This does not mean they will be free of all bugs.(no software is BELIEVE me, we just ship with as minimal as possible)As far as awards go; the queen really should give the crown to the lady in waiting(LD767)since she is more prepared at this stage ;-)

As always, awards are very perspective as opposed to respective. It is no secret that there is never a unanimous concensus regarding the winner of any award epecially in this hobby where there are so many "schools of loyalty".Personally, I think that the LDS 767 is every bit as good as the PMDG and, of course, each of their merits can be argued with vigor. Both are excellent and ground breaking in their own right and both are very accurate representations of their intended model.At the end of the day, there is no sense in the debate: PMDG v LDS. One had to win and that was PMDG. To that I say, congrats PMDG, keep up the good work. If it were the other way around, we'd still be having this conversation and I'd be saying congrats LDS keep up the good work.Regards,Mike T.

Well, for what it's worth I would have voted for the PMDG 747.I'm fortunate in that it works OK on my system. and I've really begun to get into the guts of it. It's a superb simulation. It just has a 'wow factor' especially flying from the VC. I like the 767 a lot too, but I'd have to put it in 2nd place.However, I think that the comments about it being unfinished are valid ones, and I hope the necessary patch comes out soon so that everyone can enjoy it properly. And as Bob says we've been treated to a raft of simulated aircraft of such quality that it scarcely seems fair to single any one out as the best.Ian

Hi Clay,I agree with your opinion of Dreamfleet's 727. It will never have the mass appeal of the more modern jets, but those who fly it, really love it. It is, in fact, the only jetliner that I fly on a regular basis.Last night, I flew the American Airlines Astrojet version from Bermuda to Reagan National (which I guess wasn't Reagan National when American flew 727's). In a few days, I'll be uploading a series of shots to the Screenshot Forum. In the meantime, I don't know whether you did your primary training in the T-34, but if so, you might want to check out a couple of series I posted of that one:http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...d=211800&page=3http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...d=211962&page=2

its been like this since day one.Gary HayesLevel-D Simulations Development TeamNo im not a "real" pilot, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.P4 3.0ghz w/HT & FSB..Radeon X850XT 256MB..1 gig PC3200 DDR RAM..Sound Blaster Audigy w/5.1 THX

Dillon, In some ways I agree and in others I do not. I would not say that user requests have fallen on deaf ears, that is in fact one of the silliest statements I have heard on this forum. Maybe that is how you perceive it, maybe you don't think that it is being patched fast enough, I don't know but they do listen. I have been a customer of PMDG since their first offering for Fly! and they always listen to what people say and try to fix any real problems with their product. Maybe they don't get every little bug but no one does. In every vendor forum you read there is some guy screaming because some little thing that they want is not modeled or fixed the way they want it to be. Now as to the award, in some ways I agree that it desreves one and in others I wonder should it have received it now with the first release. This is a ground breaking product, it is something that goes beyond what others offer, no one can challenge that. Does it have bugs now? Yes. But from PMDG's history we all know that all of the major bugs will be fixed. I guess it comes down to how you look at it and it seems that the awards judges looked at the 747's merits and gave them the benefit of the doubt based on history. Would I have done the same? I am not sure. Personally I am very happy with the 747, I do not have any of the stuttering issues that others have, I also do not have any out of memory errors or anything else. Heck I am not even running it on a fancy rig right now, just a AMD XP2500 with 1gig of memory and a GeForce FX5900XT video card. Based on my personal experience the thing is worthy of an award knowing that the other issues will be fixed. I would have to factor in what others say though, the stuttering and out of memory errors even though I do not see them. It would be a tough decision though. I can not believe that you even question whether or not PMDG will patch the 747, why do you? They have said that they will and their history shows that they will. I do wish that all software was released bug free but none of it is. I guess what really baffles me is that some people scream bloody murder and take it so personally when something does not work the way they want it to and no matter how many times the company says they are going to patch it the complaining continues. I guess it comes down to our own personal likes and dislikes because no add-on is perfect, no add-on has everything modeled completely or is bug free, we tend to over look the faults on those things that we like and enhance the faults of those that we do not.Best Regards,Philip Olsonhttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/supporter.jpg

I am so pleased that the Aeroworx B200 has finally got the credit she so deserved from the initial poor revue.There were so many that threw up their arms in horror at the initial revue accuracy.A Kingair Pilot made a thorough revue back then which praised its qualities even with the odd bug.What we have to acknowledge is just how good and how complex these aircraft have come and what a fantastic choose we now have.PMDG and Level D have really raised the bar in what we now expect.PMDG I am sure will Make the 747 a true Queen to reflect the award by getting rid of those few bugs.Which is or will be better? only we will know by which one we fire up.How about some business jets to the complex, accuracy and detail of the renditions from these companies.Peter

C'mon...AVSIM is "in bed" with PMDG. This is not the first time that a review was given favoring something that didn't deserve it.

"In bed"??? What's that mean? And since you decided to make that assertion, show us the facts to back up your claim. How are we in bed with PMDG and show us the facts...

I was really hoping that no one was going to come in here and make such an assertion, but of course they did. I have always found Avsims reviews to be right on, or really close, same with their awards. Edam, I would also like to know on what facts you base this statement. I would also like to know why you feel this way. There have been times that I have thought Avsim nuts for giving an award or a positive review to a certain product but instead of making accusations I decided to judge their actions first by checking out their facts and each time I did so with an open mind I found that I agreed with them. In some cases I had to buy a product that I had not intended to because of poor reviews by other users, in others I had the product but did not like it when I first used it. It is easy to get caught up in what others say or in your own first impressions but I have found that Avsim looks beyond all of that and really tries to look objectively at the product. I am not saying they are perfect, any reviewer will include a small amount of their own bias, feelings, whatever you want to call it, but over all I think they do a good job. I think that you would find that there are a lot of people out here that agree the 747 deserved the award. The 767 is a fantastic product as well, no doubt there, and I can assure you that they did not have an easy time of choosing the winner. Best Regards,Philip Olsonhttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/supporter.jpg