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GHarrall

The Tiresome "If it ain't Boeing, Im not going"..........

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People who use that term should watch this documentary.

 

Obviously there are two sides to every story but it makes interesting viewing.

 

 

 

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Ah, lithium ion... 

 

Go back to gel cell lead acid or NiMH - the engines have enough thrust to cope with that extra weight..  :Tounge:  he said flippantly.

 

Don't get me wrong, any battery can turn nasty if mishandled etc.

 

That was in the first 3 mins of the documentary. Haven't watched the rest of it.

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Ah, lithium ion... 

 

Go back to gel cell lead acid or NiMH - the engines have enough thrust to cope with that extra weight..  :Tounge:  he said flippantly.

 

Don't get me wrong, any battery can turn nasty if mishandled etc.

 

That was in the first 3 mins of the documentary. Haven't watched the rest of it.

 

There is more to it than the batteries......

 

Like I said though, there are two sides to every story but its interesting viewing

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 You may not agree with their politics (I certainly don't) but some folks feel that way about MSNBC and/or The New York Times also. Like it or not, Al Jazeera has one of the best news organizations in the world.

 

Doug

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Not regarding the batteries, I believe the CFRP (carbon fiber) craze will vanish eventually. It's being proven problematic on both the 787 and the 350. 

 

The A400M is also not without problems regarding CFRP. There's A HUGE lack of knowledge regarding CFRP use in the aviation industry. The A400M was a "learning" project by Airbus, intended to be used as an experiment to gather knowledge and know-how.


Seriously... Al Jazeera?  

 

Yeah. What's wrong with that?

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Seriously... Al Jazeera?

 

There had to be someone who mentioned this.

 

It's like saying "seriously......insert any global news agency here"

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This is two years old now. Every popular aircraft ever produced had hiccups along the way, that is all part of the process. 787 was a lot of new approaches and the battery is just a very minor part of a very large complicated machine. I've flown in them already and I think they are amazing, I will continue to fly in them again. 

 

I do agree the 'If It Ain't Boeing' comment is annoying as Boeing and Airbus are apples to oranges, no real comparisons but some common ground, two different companies and two different approaches. Reality is neither company can produce aircraft fast enough to meet industry demand so they are both a necessary part of air travel.

 

Oh yeah and I would watch Al Jezeera over Fox News any day. It is my view that the USA is the absolute worst nation in the world at Broadcast News. Canada and New Zealand do a far better job. 

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Maybe you should hear the perspective from where it matters most, the customers. In this case, one of the most demanding customers, Qatar Airways. If it ain't Boeing, I ain't going!  

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This is two years old now. Every popular aircraft ever produced had hiccups along the way, that is all part of the process. 787 was a lot of new approaches and the battery is just a very minor part of a very large complicated machine. I've flown in them already and I think they are amazing, I will continue to fly in them again.

 

I do agree the 'If It Ain't Boeing' comment is annoying as Boeing and Airbus are apples to oranges, no real comparisons but some common ground, two different companies and two different approaches. Reality is neither company can produce aircraft fast enough to meet industry demand so they are both a necessary part of air travel.

 

Oh yeah and I would watch Al Jezeera over Fox News any day. It is my view that the USA is the absolute worst nation in the world at Broadcast News. Canada and New Zealand do a far better job.

 

This report was far more than the battery though. It goes into the very heart of the accountability and decision making of Boeing as a whole regarding the 787 program. The ex engineers and employees testimony is very intriguing as is the recorded undercover comments from employees in the South Carolina assembly facility.

Maybe you should hear the perspective from where it matters most, the customers. In this case, one of the most demanding customers, Qatar Airways. If it ain't Boeing, I ain't going!

Sure, you mean like customers who refuse to accept 787 aircraft built at the non Union South Carolina plant?

 

Let's not mention the ex faa employees turned Boeing lobbyists or the memos from managers instructing schedule attainment above quality. Even taken with a grain of salt, the entire report is worrying at best

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Sure, you mean like customers who refuse to accept 787 aircraft built at the non Union South Carolina plant?

 

hahaha, where do you get that?? Didn't you watch the short clip? Seal of approval from Mr. Al Baker even 787s built at BSC. 

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hahaha, where do you get that?? Didn't you watch the short clip? Seal of approval from Mr. Al Baker even 787s built at BSC.

 

Wasn't referring to the one particular customer. There are those that won't take them though

 

Besides, that video is nothing more than opinion. There was no evidence provided to dispute any of the claims in the report, just a speech from an airline head protecting his investment. There was no "smack down" despite the pretty graphics. I was hoping for more substance to refute the claims. In fact, I hope there is a better rebuttal and response from the manufacturer somewhere. As mentioned, it's worrying at best

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Wasn't referring to the one particular customer. There are those that won't take them though

 

Besides, that video is nothing more than opinion. There was no evidence provided to dispute any of the claims in the report, just a speech from an airline head protecting his investment. There was no "smack down" despite the pretty graphics. I was hoping for more substance to refute the claims. In fact, I hope there is a better rebuttal and response from the manufacturer somewhere. As mentioned, it's worrying at best

 

So what is your evidence that no one is taking them? Have you been here to BSC to see the aircraft that are being delivered to Virgin Atlantic, Qatar, even the ANA R2D2 plane was built here? Please show me your proof. 

 

Also, it seem you don't know who Akbar Al Baker is? CEO of Qatar Airway who can be pretty pointed what he says about Boeing and Airbus, one of the most vocal and demanding CEO in the airline business. http://www.wsj.com/video/qatar-ceo-slams-airbus-a380-delivery/5EFFF26A-294E-4B55-BD7E-E92A07161CE8.html

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Anyway, the report Is out there. It's not up to me to defend it or try and convince anyone of its validity. In fact, as I said originally there are two sides to every story. I would like to hear the other side.

Time will tell as well I suppose.

So what is your evidence that no one is taking them? Have you been here to BSC to see the aircraft that are being delivered to Virgin Atlantic, Qatar, even the ANA R2D2 plane was built here? Please show me your proof.

 

Also, it seem you don't know who Akbar Al Baker is? CEO of Qatar Airway who can be pretty pointed what he says about Boeing and Airbus, one of the most vocal and demanding CEO in the airline business. http://www.wsj.com/video/qatar-ceo-slams-airbus-a380-delivery/5EFFF26A-294E-4B55-BD7E-E92A07161CE8.html

lol, I'm well aware of who he is. The report stated that customers won't accept SC built 787's

 

Oh, I see you are a Boeing SC employee? That explains a lot. I would be defensive too. Again the report is out there. I would love to see proof that it's NOT true. That written memos advising schedule attainment vs quality weren't distributed......etc etc

Where is the official response to the Al Jazeera report?

 

The written responses provided to the program reporter were weak at best

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h

 

Anyway, the report Is out there. It's not up to me to defend it or try and convince anyone of its validity. In fact, as I said originally there are two sides to every story. I would like to hear the other side.
Time will tell as well I suppose.

lol, I'm well aware of who he is. The report stated that customers won't accept SC built 787's

Oh, I see you are a Boeing SC employee? That explains a lot. I would be defensive too. Again the report is out there. I would love to see proof that it's NOT true. That written memos advising schedule attainment vs quality weren't distributed......

 

Haha it is funny you are very hard headed even when I show you a clip from you claim to know the reputation of, defend Boeing and BSC you still want to believe a documentary! I feel bad for you man, you must have nothing to do but watch a 45 min clip and believing people who make anonymous claims. And where did you get the idea i work for BSC or even a Boeing employee???? :P


Where is the official response to the Al Jazeera report?
 

Brah! please watch the video!!!! Mr. Al-Baker was answering question referring to the Al Jazeera report that you seem to believe as the Gospel! 

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You said "here" referring to aircraft built in SC. You clearly at least live locally to the plant

 

Also, there were plenty of people in that report who were quite happy to have names on record.

 

The Al Jazeera report provides names, documents and it's not my job to prove or disprove. Again, where is the official response? I would love to see it.

 

I'm quite happy to hear both sides. An endorsement from an airline ceo is not exactly an effective counter to the report

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As I remember, an Airbus flew itself into the ground at the Paris Airshow when it was first introduced...didn't the 737 have a rudder actuator fluid problem that cause two crashes until fixed and now it's the most popular aircraft in the world?  Point being, products are improved as time goes on, fortunately this process for the 787 has not resulted in any fatalities.  The air industry is safer than it has ever been,

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There was no mention of this report being "gospel" simply that it was intriguing and at the very least an official response should be provided that is better than the written PR blurb that was provided to the reporter,

 

A 5 minute marketing statement from an airline CEO does not constitute a factual response to the allegations made by the program.

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You said "here" referring to aircraft built in SC. You clearly at least live locally to the plant

 

Also, there were plenty of people in that report who were quite happy to have names on record.

 

The Al Jazeera report provides names, documents and it's not my job to prove or disprove. Again, where is the official response? I would love to see it.

 

I'm quite happy to hear both sides. An endorsement from an airline ceo is not exactly an effective counter to the report

 

So one thing I have always learned in business, the opinion of one only counts when he/she has a skin in the game. The only thing the report for that documentary wants to do is to make his story shocking in a way so it become news worthy. I can tell you, the CEO of Qatar has said unflattering things about the 787 as well. There are official response as well, obviously something you did not bother to check :) 

There was no mention of this report being "gospel" simply that it was intriguing and at the very least an official response should be provided that is better than the written PR blurb that was provided to the reporter,

 

A 5 minute marketing statement from an airline CEO does not constitute a factual response to the allegations made by the program.

 

okay, obviously I am wasting my time. You wanted to see the other side and I have conveyed that to you but obviously don't want to believe what the customer has to say despite 787's being delivered from both Everett and Charleston are still being accepted and praised by the airlines. 

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I have seen the official responses. As I said, they are weak at best. To my knowledge they are all written PR pieces and further recorded / televised interviews on the subject were declined. If I was a Boeing senior executive I would want to be on record and issue a very clear statement discrediting each part of the report piece by piece.

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It's a programme plagued with problems and delays, more than most.

Air NZ is the 789 launch customer; I won't fly it because I don't know whether the quality issues are short or long term issues. Certainly Boeing bled red ink all over the programme. As a result they compromised their previously very high standards to meet the schedules. There are just too many, very basic issues: Wing fasteners, batteries, engines.

Right now if it's a Boeing (787) you ain't going (very high).

http://aviationweek.com/technology/higher-altitudes-cleared-ge-powered-787-747-8-icing

 

I'd also like to hear a point-by-point rebuttal from a senior Boeing exec before I fly one.

It's a gorgeous aircraft and deserves to be done right. 

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I have seen the official responses. As I said, they are weak at best. To my knowledge they are all written PR pieces and further recorded / televised interviews on the subject were declined. If I was a Boeing senior executive I would want to be on record and issue a very clear statement discrediting each part of the report piece by piece.

 

They don't need to discredit the report piece by piece. Just look at the sales and delivery figures, enough said.

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Seriously... Al Jazeera?  

no less viable than CNN or foxnews.  so ... yea

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Boeing epitomizes everything that is going wrong with corporate America and America in general. Profit and greed, over safety and accountability. Top regulators in all facets of the government, even beyond aviation, who are representatives bought and sold to the corporate establishment agenda. We are in crisis in the US and the situation is unsustainable in the long term. 

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