Sign in to follow this  
Gregg_Seipp

Similarities/differences between flying 777 and 747

Recommended Posts

Hi all,

 

Since I lost all my heavy metal when I moved from FSX to P3D I'm pondering getting one...just haven't decided which.  (I fly heavy metal from time to time...not hard core by any means.)  Both the 777 and 747 are long haul aircraft and I know that some of you guys have multiple long haulers and, probably, both.  What are the significant differences when flying and operating them?  If you had to pick one, which would it be?

 

Gregg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

Maybe starting with Peter's videos, recorded in Aerowinx PSX, will give you a great guide :-)

 

http://aerowinx.com/board/index.php?topic=2583.0

 

The absence of a "FBW" system in the good old Queen of the Skies will, among other many details, show why pilots disengage the A/T early in a visual or coupled approach - the effects of the pitch / power couple, very noticeable in the 744, and perfectly ironed out in the 777...  Watch the approach video on the above series...

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At 06:30 on, in video 10) - Landing, you'll be able to see how sensitive the real 744 is to power changes... It's a big difference from the 777 which automatically compensates for it ...

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The most obvious difference is that the 777 is a FBW aircraft and the 744 is not. As José pointed out, this poses some differences in handling characteristics. For the interested reader, see here.

 

In general, the 777 is a much more modern airplane. You just feel it is much "newer". There's more automation to take care of several systems.

 

"Big" new things on the 777: Electronic Flight Bag, Interactive Checklist and QRH...

 

The 744 is really a modernised version of a 60's aircraft. The 777 was designed from scratch in the late 80's/early 90's, there's a 30-year gap between them and it shows.

 

If I had to pick one for our FSX/P3D, as of now, I like the PMDG 777. It's definitely better than their previous 747 (10 years old). I didn't try the iFy 747 so I can't say, but I've heard very good comments from that one.

 

In real life, the 777 is a more advanced machine. But the 747 is the 747... and what's the price on being able to say, at dinner parties "I fly a 747 for a living" "Woooow" vs. "I fly a 777 for a living" "Ok, and how does that compare to a 747 again?"

 

Just joking of course, hahaha. I think I would love to have a taste of both if I were a real pilot.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I the real world, I prefer the "classic" approach of the 747's operational usage.  But in the sim, given currently availability, I'd rate the PMDG 777 quite far ahead of the iFly 747 (both of which I own and enjoy).

 

Of course, when PMDG release their "Queen of the Skies II" all that will probably change. :smile:

 

But for now, the PMDG 777 is the best all round airliner for any of the sims, IMHO.  Stunning quality in terms of functions, visuals, sounds, FDE, and immersion.

 

As well stated above, in the real world operations, the main differences are around the FBW and greater systems automation of the 777.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe starting with Peter's videos, recorded in Aerowinx PSX, will give you a great guide :-)

 

http://aerowinx.com/board/index.php?topic=2583.0

 

The absence of a "FBW" system in the good old Queen of the Skies will, among other many details, show why pilots disengage the A/T early in a visual or coupled approach - the effects of the pitch / power couple, very noticeable in the 744, and perfectly ironed out in the 777...  Watch the approach video on the above series...

 

Likewise, I am excited and curious to see how the feel will change between PMDG's 744 and their 748, once released.  I know that they say that the 748's FBW is tuned to handle as closely as possible to the 744, but I presume that we will also see differences in behavior along the lines described above with the 777.  After all the 748 is very similar systems-wise to the 777.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gregg if you've got the funds, I would get the 777 now and enjoy it and then wait for the new 747 later on and get that too. It is bound to be excellent and you can compare the two for yourself. The 747 still isn't in beta yet so there's still a little while to go, so in the meantime you can get started with the 777, which is without doubt one of the best simulation products ever made and you'd be missing out if you didn't get it. As the others have said, the level of automation in the 777 will provide an interesting contrast to the 744, particularly when it comes to system malfunctions. When there's an incoming alert in the 777 with random/service based failures, there's very often a nice EICAS checklist to summon and work through, and many of the items on those checklists automatically detect their completion. Whereas in the 744, you have a problem, you gotta get into your PMDG folder and dig into the QRH.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 


Gregg if you've got the funds, I would get the 777 now and enjoy it and then wait for the new 747 later on and get that too. It is bound to be excellent and you can compare the two for yourself. The 747 still isn't in beta yet so there's still a little while to go, so in the meantime you can get started with the 777, which is without doubt one of the best simulation products ever made and you'd be missing out if you didn't get it. As the others have said, the level of automation in the 777 will provide an interesting contrast to the 744, particularly when it comes to system malfunctions. When there's an incoming alert in the 777 with random/service based failures, there's very often a nice EICAS checklist to summon and work through, and many of the items on those checklists automatically detect their completion. Whereas in the 744, you have a problem, you gotta get into your PMDG folder and dig into the QRH.

 

That ended up being my decision.  I could end up with 'the other' 747...I'm not a hard core heavy metal guy...I like GA quite a bit...depends on the price and the inevitable comparisons.  So, we'll see how it goes.  But I've always, always wanted a 747...just something amazing about it.  In the mean time I'll learn more about the global airports these planes fly into, pick up some airports on sale (Narita...Incheon...London)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i will always pick the 747 over the 777. Maybe because its love for the original long haul queen. The way she handles in full manual is just spot on and a joy to fly. the 777 is great too dont get me wrong. But the feeling is just not the same.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 


i will always pick the 747 over the 777. Maybe because its love for the original long haul queen. The way she handles in full manual is just spot on and a joy to fly. the 777 is great too dont get me wrong. But the feeling is just not the same.

 

Notice how patient I'm being, getting the 777 first for the learning.  :) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

PMDG 777 is fantastic, i am curious thou when the 747 releases. i am really looking forward to the other models they may release (BCF, -400M, and the 400D and of course the "more") http://prntscr.com/b3fev9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The 777 is a fantastic plane and PMDG modeled it beautifully. That being said the 747 was always my favorite plane. It was a completely different design than anything before and I've always had a sweet spot for it since I was a kid.  Not having the new 747 I can only compare the original but energy management in the 777 seems to require more attention than the 747. If you let it, the 777 will bust constraints very easily due to the power of its engines and the fact that it seems very "slippery" Enjoy the 777!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tha 744 can be slippery as well, if one does not properly the descent phase...  I've learned that thanks to PSX ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Notice how patient I'm being, getting the 777 first for the learning.  :) 

 

Couple helpful hints:

 

1. Turn on "Show throttle position When Moving" to see where your physical thrust levers are to sync with AT.

 

2. Enable "Show FBW Trim" this will be very helpful to keep the trim in sync when you fly by hand as you won't feel the real yoke forces, plus the aircraft trims for airspeed, not pitch like we are used to.

 

3. Try your first couple of ILS landings with the AT ON all the way to touchdown. I found when flying by hand since I was so used to the 737 that I was retarding the thrust levers too early or late and it took a long time to find the sweet spot. Keep tabs on when the AT retards the power a couple of times then give it a go manually. 

 

4. The flare looks and feels totally different than the 737, TOTALLY. A little flare 2-3 degrees nose up is all it takes, and don;t attempt to flare until passing 30AGL or you will float float float...

 

Cheers!

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good hints Angelo! :)

 

The best hint of all is: RTFM, Read the manuals and tutorials!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tha 744 can be slippery as well, if one does not properly the descent phase...  I've learned that thanks to PSX ...

 

Very true Jose I have learned that in PSX also! The FS 747 seems a lot different due to the platform I guess.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 


1. Turn on "Show throttle position When Moving" to see where your physical thrust levers are to sync with AT.

 

I found that feature last night reading the Introduction.

 

 


3. Try your first couple of ILS landings with the AT ON all the way to touchdown. I found when flying by hand since I was so used to the 737 that I was retarding the thrust levers too early or late and it took a long time to find the sweet spot. Keep tabs on when the AT retards the power a couple of times then give it a go manually.

4. The flare looks and feels totally different than the 737, TOTALLY. A little flare 2-3 degrees nose up is all it takes, and don;t attempt to flare until passing 30AGL or you will float float float...

 

Good tips.  Thanks.

 

 

 


The best hint of all is: RTFM, Read the manuals and tutorials!

 

Working on it.  A lot, lot to read over and over again!  But, really, I was looking for not just the technical side but, really, it actually feels.  In the 747 you're four stories up, it's not FBW but what comparison can you make? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 


In the 747 you're four stories up, it's not FBW but what comparison can you make? 

 

The height of the 777's cockpit is also large! You shouldn't worry too much about that if you're used to flying the 747.

 

If the flare and landing geometry is what's concerning you, just practice! There's another thread on landing techniques for the 777. Load her on the runway and fly some touch and goes :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great discussion guys.  I can't wait for the 747 release.  It'll be really interesting learning to 'fly' the 747 after having 'flown' the 777 for the last two years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have heard, not that it matters much in sim, but that the 777 is harder to grease than the 747. There's a former 747 pilot on YouTube that I believe flies for Alaska airlines and was at one point flew the 742. He's now in the 777 and says it's much harder to land comfortablely in that bird.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have heard, not that it matters much in sim, but that the 777 is harder to grease than the 747. There's a former 747 pilot on YouTube that I believe flies for Alaska airlines and was at one point flew the 742. He's now in the 777 and says it's much harder to land comfortablely in that bird.

 

I also read the 747 is "easy" to land. See here: http://gadling.com/2011/09/30/cockpit-chronicles-boeing-vs-boeing-a-few-pilots-weigh-in-on-t/

 

Maybe it's not that the 777 is difficult, but just that the 747 is easier? Also, if you're used to a 747 the 777 might seem more difficult at first because it's FBW. But I always intuitively thought the 777 would be easier to land. Unfortunately I haven't landed them both to be able to compare :sad:

 

For what it's worth, I landed a 744 in a FFS and didn't find it particularly difficult. The only "quirk" is cockpit height, but after the second landing you get used to that...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He said something about the spoilers deploying as soon as the mains touch but I thought they all did that lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this