I can't imagine a training scenario designed for the purpose of boosting or bursting egos. Training scenarios are designed to build skill sets...

I can't imagine a training scenario designed for the purpose of boosting or bursting egos. ...

 

I may have misinterpreted, Ron - I was thinking of bursting egos of the general public having a demo of the sim, rather than non certified pilots in a structured training session.

 

Thanks for the explanation Ken

:wink: :wink:

 

 

Both crewmembers happen to pass out (but not in a way that is harmful, really bad fish) suddenly before they even have a chance to declare a "medical emergency" initiate a descent and land the aircraft. As this terrible fish is knocking them unconscious they have the presence of mind to unlock the flight deck door. A flight attendant finds the unconscious crew with enough time to go "Oh, help is their a pilot in the house?" Swagger and suave Mr. Microsoft Flight Simulator expert stands up and yells, "I'll save this airplane! I have 100,000 hours flying on VATSIM, am a Senior Super Duper Command ATP Captain with EastWest Virtual Airlines, and I am rated in and a Senior Check Captain for everything that ever flown or will ever fly."

 

Then she asks..

FSX, FSX:SE, P3D or X-Plane? Saitek or CHProducts yoke & pedals? Or what stick? (if it's an Airbus), PMDG? How many screens are you using? ButtKicker?

Sims are good for teaching basic principles of flight, operation and processes. It may accelerate learning on the actual type if you are fortunate enough to get there. But this idea of flightsim know-it-all's telling their mates they can fly a 777 because they are able to fly it in their bedrooms is hogwash. The physical environment on a real flightdeck, although visually recognisable, is overwhelmingly different from 2D. The 3D aspect is really a very different experience. - that's without actually operating anything.

Here's the reality. You can have 20K hours in an MD11 and you will still need to do a checkout in a 172SP to act as PIC. To carry passengers you will still need the 3 takeoffs and landings and at night to a full stop. Most simmers have no idea of what it takes to be current or to meet insurance requirements. These threads lead to no where.

Here's the reality. You can have 20K hours in an MD11 and you will still need to do a checkout in a 172SP to act as PIC. To carry passengers you will still need the 3 takeoffs and landings and at night to a full stop. Most simmers have no idea of what it takes to be current or to meet insurance requirements. These threads lead to no where

 

I think the topic contemplates the classic scenario of being called to fly an aircraft if no-one else could - and how that would pan out. Your argument is far too logical

I think the topic contemplates the classic scenario of being called to fly an aircraft if no-one else could - and how that would pan out. Your argument is far too logical

Yes but! A well trained pilot is always thinking the "what if?" scenario which has nothing to do with pressing buttons. Most of the armchair simmers on line know how to programme an FMC and that's as far as it goes. But a well trained pilot would be able to fly a plane without having prior knowledge of how to programme an FMC. They are able to sense the aircraft around them. Feeling what it wants to do and counteracting if necessary. Assessing what lies ahead and prepare for it. An armchair simmer though would not know how to react. In fact they would react only after a situation has evolved (which is often too late) and invariably that reaction would be the wrong reaction.

Armchair simmers need to spend much more time flying older aircraft where they are physically part of the loop and not just monitoring a tv screen. Only then would they get a flavour and only a flavour of what piloting is like.

 

 

Yes but! A well trained pilot is always thinking the "what if?" scenario which has nothing to do with pressing buttons. Most of the armchair simmers on line know how to programme an FMC and that's as far as it goes. But a well trained pilot would be able to fly a plane without having prior knowledge of how to programme an FMC. They are able to sense the aircraft around them. Feeling what it wants to do and counteracting if necessary. Assessing what lies ahead and prepare for it. An armchair simmer though would not know how to react. In fact they would react only after a situation has evolved (which is often too late) and invariably that reaction would be the wrong reaction.
Armchair simmers need to spend much more time flying older aircraft where they are physically part of the loop and not just monitoring a tv screen. Only then would they get a flavour and only a flavour of what piloting is like.

 

Completely true.

Armchair simmers need to spend much more time flying older aircraft where they are physically part of the loop and not just monitoring a tv screen. Only then would they get a flavour and only a flavour of what piloting is like.

 

I'm sorry, but I just can't agree with that !

 

I'm an 'armchair' simmer as you have rather condescendingly termed me. However, I have absolutely no intention or aspiration to become a pilot and to be 'physically part of the loop'.

 

I have nothing but admiration for rw pilots, but that doesn't mean that, because I enjoy 'armchair' flying, I want to be one. 

 

What next, an FSX-SE  sub-forum for rw pilot simmers where only rw pilot simmers can ask rw questions that us mere 'armchair' pilots couldn't possibly understand ?

 

I guess the point that I'm making is, if you're a rw pilot in any capacity, or have flown in rl, that doesn't make you any better an 'armchair' pilot that me. We are all just looking at a whole load of of '1s' and '0s' being cleverly manipulated around the screen by some clever electronics for our enjoyment. And that's what it's all about.

 

Please don't dis people because they couldn't possibly land in rl a fully laden 777 with 350 souls on board in virtually zero visibility. It was only a question...

I'm sorry, but I just can't agree with that !

 

I'm an 'armchair' simmer as you have rather condescendingly termed me. However, I have absolutely no intention or aspiration to become a pilot and to be 'physically part of the loop'.

 

I have nothing but admiration for rw pilots, but that doesn't mean that, because I enjoy 'armchair' flying, I want to be one. 

 

What next, an FSX-SE  sub-forum for rw pilot simmers where only rw pilot simmers can ask rw questions that us mere 'armchair' pilots couldn't possibly understand ?

 

I guess the point that I'm making is, if you're a rw pilot in any capacity, or have flown in rl, that doesn't make you any better an 'armchair' pilot that me. We are all just looking at a whole load of of '1s' and '0s' being cleverly manipulated around the screen by some clever electronics for our enjoyment. And that's what it's all about.

 

Please don't dis people because they couldn't possibly land in rl a fully laden 777 with 350 souls on board in virtually zero visibility. It was only a question...

From what you say then you are perfectly able to fly, land any aircraft NOT

I'm very sorry to say.

Any real world pilot is much better placed to be able to land "any" aircraft. As you are an armchair pilot you will understand and apreciate that pushing and pulling the yoke in reaction to what happens on the screen is absolutely not what happens in real life!

Oh, and btw it's not condescending at all to imply that armchair pilots who have never ever flown, think that they can fly and aeroplane.

As a private pilot, I have a couple of thoughts. One, I think someone well versed in say, a PMDG aircraft, could fly the aircraft using the autopilot. Sure there would be some disorientation, but if they knew the PMDG systems, they could operate the aircraft and navigate it and respond to controller commands. They could even autoland it, if talked through it by the controller, all under the assumption that they were well trained in the sim version.

 

Handflying is a completely different story. Interestingly, I have actually found flying a real C172 EASIER than a flight sim because the controls are more responsive and 3D visual cues are more intuitive. As far as a big jet, I have no idea how it would handfly compared to the sim, but I guess thats the point. We as simmers, have no real idea of the handling of a big jet from using a desktop simulator. 

 

One day in a real simulator, I'll let you know...

I'm curious about what happens when we rephrase the question that has cropped up, you're a passenger on a plane where a nutter or some nutters with a grudge against the airline or some other chip on their shoulder have killed the pilots and taken control of the plane. You don't know what their intensions are, but you know from the amount of time the plane has flown over open ocean that you are no longer going anywhere near your original destination.

 

And so a decision is made to try to retake the plane, a few inventive guys fashion a means for disassembling the cockpit door, and the plan hinges on there being a Boeing 737 800 pilot on board, which, there isn't. There is a someone who has spent a lot of time on the PMDG 737.

 

Bearing in mind all the points made above about how simming is not flying, would you want this person to have a go at trying to land the plane? Yes or no.

Bearing in mind all the points made above about how simming is not flying, would you want this person to have a go at trying to land the plane? Yes or no.

There are so many parameters to consider here. It is a multi-dimensional scenario, not least of which is the psychological stress anyone would be experiencing in this situation. That alone could obliterate any acquired (sim) knowledge - so you'd need to be a fairly level headed, calm individual for starters. There will be alot to process in a very short space of time. That would already probably elimate about 75% of potential P3D heros. Understanding the principles of how something works on your 21 inch monitor and turning that onto a 1 chance only, life or death situation is not for the faint hearted. I would say the chances for the remaining 25% are less than 25% that anyone will walk (or crawl) away from such a situation and probably less than 10% that the aeroplane will live to fly another day. (based on absolutely no science at all other than knowing what people are like)

There are so many parameters to consider here. It is a multi-dimensional scenario, not least of which is the psychological stress anyone would be experiencing in this situation. That alone could obliterate any acquired (sim) knowledge - so you'd need to be a fairly level headed, calm individual for starters. There will be alot to process in a very short space of time. That would already probably elimate about 75% of potential P3D heros. Understanding the principles of how something works on your 21 inch monitor and turning that onto a 1 chance only, life or death situation is not for the faint hearted. I would say the chances for the remaining 25% are less than 25% that anyone will walk (or crawl) away from such a situation and probably less than 10% that the aeroplane will live to fly another day. (based on absolutely no science at all other than knowing what people are like)

 

Patronising much?