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Thomasso

If I manage to master high-end add-on planes, would I be able to fly them in real world?

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..any other way and much of their training was for naught.

 

No by a long shot - their knowledge and skillls extend way beyond basic flying.

Thats also rubbish, pressing buttons is only a quarter of the job ;) the training is all needed to fly, until they start accepting home sim experience for licencing, then it will all still be worth it.

 

there is a lot of elitisim in this thread though.

 

 

Elitism in what sense?

 

The thread is talking about the probability of success in a given scenario. How is that elitism? I think common sense dicates that a person who only has experience on his home PC will more than likely not be up to the task out of the blue. You will need to be of a certain calibre intellectually and emotionally to pull all your acquired sim knowledge together under those circumstances, quickly and logically.

 

The notion that PC pilots can fly airliners under extreme conditions, competently, is complete hogwash. Not saying they couldn't manage it under controlled conditions in a real simulator. They (we) would probably do a fairly okay job.

 

I'm not a professional pilot, nor am I even any longer a PPL. So there is no elitism in my commentary.

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Elitism, from the (presumably RL pilot) people saying its definately not possible blah blah.

 

There is no way that someone who knows at least something, is going to have the same survival chances as someone with no clue at all.

 

comments like "on your 21" monitor" and such dont help either.

 

basically it will probably never happen, but still.

 

Noone is saying they could do it completely competently, but they would have a better chance

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Noone is saying they could do it completely competently, but they would have a better chan

 

As a general comment, I agree on that - depending on the person

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One of the presumptions is the use of automation. In fact so much its not if someone can land the airplane, but can they utilize the automation to land the aircraft. Again this presumes the aircraft is optioned with autoland, as not ever aircraft that has autoland as an option is purchased by the airline with that option. Even if it is purchased the aircraft can be dispatched with autoland inoperative.

 

However, getting past all of the assumptions and things that have to happen just perfectly to end up in this scenario, then clearly someone with some sort of familiarity will have an easier time then someone without any familiarity. Success will be dependent on a myriad of factors. 

 

That being said if I was a pilot and the other guy passed out and I wanted assistance, I'd pick the complete novice. I do not need someone who thinks they know what they are doing to start smashing buttons. I have seen this in the back of the FFS where I look away for a second and then get the, "Ken, what's the FMS doing." Invariable the person started hitting buttons and despite having training has revered back to another brand of avionics. It seems this happens right before the FAF and more then a few times I told them to revert to raw data and fly manually. Downgrade the automation. 

 

The ability to downgrade automation and manually control the airplane is a hot topic that has been discussed with the FAA producing a report on the overuse of automation. Probably the best known phrase was in 1997 when American Airlines Chief Pilot, Warren Van Der Burg coined, "Children of the Magenta." This has become such a problem that even the USAF has regulatory guidance on downgrading automation and hand flying when necessary. You don't fly airplanes by pushing buttons, it is stick and rudder skills. 

 

Another huge misconception is that the airline has the exact same avionics configuration (there are options in the avionics) and software versions as your PMDG whatever. Yes FMSs are updated like windows or your apple device with updated software versions. Sure the basic underlying operation changes little but there can be key differences. The option you are looking for may not be on the same page or new options may exist. I have yet to see a FSX/P3D product get updated because Honeywell, Rockwell-Collins or Universal updated the software for their FMS. In fact most developers produce products that are a version or two behind because the manual they got for free. 

 

Finally sitting behind a computer monitor and playing a video game does not make you a pilot. Unless you have a certificate by the government or you are a military pilot (I don't care about boat pilots) then you are pretending. There is a formal training process and testing of skills that is required to become a real pilot. Then there is the decades of experience to just scrape together enough hours to take an ATP ride and get hired on. Saying (or alluding) you can bypass this entire process because you are so much smarter and better is offensive, as offensive as if I walked into your place of employment and told you I can do your job better then you or I know more about your job because I read about it on Goggle. 

 

Some say they want to learn, but learning requires listening and not cherry picking a comment for something you want to attack. Sure I have been sarcastic and used satire in some of my comments. Believe me I have been a kitten compared to what would happen to some of you if you brought your attitudes to UPT. 

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Ken

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There is no way that someone who knows at least something, is going to have the same survival chances as someone with no clue at all.

 

Have you any idea how much training is required for an ATPL? Obviously not!

And then some to examine those guys!

If it were just down to pushing a few buttons everybody on this thread would be piliots!


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This is exactly the reason why home flightsims or flightsim pilots are looked down upon by the real world community.

 

Many RW pilots, particulatly the younger crowd, cut their teeth on FSX - which has would have been hugely beneficial to their formal training,

 

The problem is that the simming crowd think that a little bit of knowledge acquired on their 21 inch monitors provides them with immense capability in the real world. I love flightsimming - the more immersive and complex the better. A fully implemented sim with all the bells and whistles is probably one of the most amazing applications on the modern day PC. But I am under no illusion that to doing the same thing in a real world 777 or 737 will put me completely outside of my comfort zone. It is not the same thing at all.

 

 

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One of the presumptions is the use of automation.

 

To help me to formulate an appropriate response, may I ask whether your post is in answer to the OP's question, or to my question?


R. Francois Myburgh

 

"I have made a ceaseless effort not to ridicule, not to bewail, not to scorn human actions, but to understand them."

Baruch Spinoza (because to quote Bertrand Russell would have been offensive)

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This is exactly the reason why home flightsims or flightsim pilots are looked down upon by the real world community.

 

The problem is that the simming crowd think that a little bit of knowledge acquired on their 21 inch monitors provides them with immense capability in the real world. I love flightsimming - the more immersive and complex the better.

 

There are way too many smartarses  in this world. The flightsim world in particular is full of them.

 

Look, I don't mean to be a dumbass nonpilot, but if someone wants to look down on me because they were too busy being smart to understand the question I asked, then that's entirely up to them. I can't stop people from resorting to caricature, but I don't want to be dragged into an argument where the prize goes to the person with the most indignant caricature.


R. Francois Myburgh

 

"I have made a ceaseless effort not to ridicule, not to bewail, not to scorn human actions, but to understand them."

Baruch Spinoza (because to quote Bertrand Russell would have been offensive)

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Look, I don't mean to be a dumbass nonpilot, but if someone wants to look down on me because they were too busy being smart to understand the question I asked, then that's entirely up to them. I can't stop people from resorting to caricature, but I don't want to be dragged into an argument where the prize goes to the person with the most indignant caricature.

Francois, that's not really what I'm getting at. My commentary was certainly no reference to you or your questions. I think it has been a good debate all being said.

 

My comment is more a general commentary on arrogance and ignorance of some within the flightsim community (none of whom are necessarily part of this discussion thread by the way). 

 

My comments can sometimes be a bit sharp but it's no specific reflection on anyone here.  We are afterall all here for the same reason.  We love flightsimming and flying,  On that, at least we can all agree.

 

(Ons Suid-Afrikaners is mos vol bek :))

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And so a decision is made to try to retake the plane, a few inventive guys fashion a means for disassembling the cockpit door...

Somehow I don't see that as even a remote possibility, given that the cockpit door was designed to withstand a grenade blast... He%20He.gif


Fr. Bill    

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I was not even going to respond to the "Air Terrorism" fantasy scenario. Yes, the doors are described by the manufacture as "bullet proof." Unfortunately, there are Youtube videos on these reinforced flight deck doors. 

 

I have been searching and can find zero cases of where both pilots became incapacitated and the passengers were in a position to do anything in a modern commercial airliner.  

 

The cases I have found about a dozen reports of a non-pilot passenger in the front end of a Cessna, Piper ect and the Pilot is incapacitated by a stroke, heart attack ect. This has happened and there are cases of people being talked down to varying levels of success. Even a case of a Cirrus in which the passenger was directed to shut off the engine and pull the recovery system (parachute.) Interesting that no one even asked the obvious question in that case. If the right seat passenger had experience in hobby level desktop simulation would there be a higher chance of a successful outcome. 

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Ken

Join Elite Air Taxi a free VA http://www.flyelite.net

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Francois, that's not really what I'm getting at. My commentary was certainly no reference to you or your questions. I think it has been a good debate all being said.

My comment is more a general commentary on arrogance and ignorance of some within the flightsim community (none of whom are necessarily part of this discussion thread by the way). 

 

My comments can sometimes be a bit sharp but it's no specific reflection on anyone here.  We are afterall all here for the same reason.  We love flightsimming and flying,  On that, at least we can all agree.

 

(Ons Suid-Afrikaners is mos vol bek :))

No harm done, Erich, I was not looking to pick a fight or to change anyone's minds about anything.

 

Perhaps a question more suited to a braai en bier get together than sim forum.

  • Upvote 1

R. Francois Myburgh

 

"I have made a ceaseless effort not to ridicule, not to bewail, not to scorn human actions, but to understand them."

Baruch Spinoza (because to quote Bertrand Russell would have been offensive)

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Have you any idea how much training is required for an ATPL? Obviously not!

And then some to examine those guys!

If it were just down to pushing a few buttons everybody on this thread would be piliots!

 

I have a bloody ATPL. when did I say pushing buttons was all it was? I said it was 25% of the job. get over yourself.

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