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YukonPete

60 Minutes look at the F35

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Wow !

 

Thanks for posting. I envy those two. I bet it's hard work, though.

 

Flight 250 in 25 seconds ? Knowing how 'they' hide the full specs, I bet it can do better.... :P

 

I like that part - where the 'other' aircraft doesn't know that you are there, before 'bang', it's gone.

Scary.

 

I love the way the media go on, and on, re costs/overruns. I like to think of it this way. If you don't spend it - you're gone.

 

Sigh. Back to P3d and my JF Hawk T1. Where's my afterburner ?

 

Bill

 

 

 

 

 

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Brilliant, Peter. Thanks. Having seen one of those at close up courtesy of a USAF friend at base in Nevada, they are awesome.

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I see it as a toy in an arms race but useless in a future war due to slow production rate and high cost. Germany had the best high tech at the start of WW2 with U-Boats and Tanks and that threat was easily defeated with cheap Corvettes produced in higher numbers going after U-Boats and cheap Sherman Tanks in much higher production rates but no where near as good as Panzers and Tigers. Cheap and nasty in higher volumes always wins.

 

Another nation could probably produce fighters at a rate of 10:1 and over run them the same way the Shearman took 4 tanks to every one German tank to defeat them. The idea that the F35 can't be seen undermines the enemy because one thing for certain is people are extremely resourceful and they will absolutely come up with a way to find it.

 

The future jet to me is not the F35 as they will need to take a step back and come up with something at a better budget and much better production rate to be effective. This is just a current toy to show off.

 

Good video though

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Has bomber strategy changed in the past decade? Is the F-35 a better bomb truck that the Tornado? Just curious. Is low level target interdiction and strike a thing of the past? The Tornado may not have the stealth, but boy can it shift down on the deck (I'm sure I heard Mach 1.3 bandied about whilst I was weighing them at BAe Warton), enduring the fatigue for far longer than other aircraft, at higher speeds.

 

I believe the UK is going to use it as a multi-role aircraft and leave the air superiority to the Typhoon.... or is that down to cost?

 

As for the ugly thing with lift engines... Is that the best version of a stealthy Harrier?? :) (J/K I don't like the look of the thing, but if it works, I must concede that it works). Sooner have a squadron of Flankers though....

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I think the 5th Generation fighter will be the last maned fighter as it's the human body and hi G's holding future fighter back

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Indeed Pete - not only can you remove the G-limits if you remove the pilot, but also the associated weight penalties pandering to the human frame (canopy to see out of, escape and survival systems, ergonomic controls designed to be used by an actual human, displays etc.)

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I agree as well. Then you also eliminate the need to train a pilot, which has significant costs as well

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Ah, but now you're talking autonomous aircraft. If it were just unmanned, you'd still need an armchair pilot flying it from the base.

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Ah, but now you're talking autonomous aircraft. If it were just unmanned, you'd still need an armchair pilot flying it from the base.

But when the aircraft crashes you just link up to another aircraft, therefore no more 'Hanoi Hilton' situation for the few that were lucky enough to survive a crash. Pilot losses are a significant drain on resources

 

Most likely it will be programmed that it really doesn't need piloting. Just feed it commands and it will follow. Perhaps a human piloting it would inhibit its full performance capability because a computer can carry out tasks faster

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But when the aircraft crashes you just link up to another aircraft, therefore no more 'Hanoi Hilton' situation for the few that were lucky enough to survive a crash. Pilot losses are a significant drain on resources

 

Most likely it will be programmed that it really doesn't need piloting. Just feed it commands and it will follow. Perhaps a human piloting it would inhibit its full performance capability because a computer can carry out tasks faster

The drain on resources wouldnt be that big. The public opinon, when pilots die or are captured, is far more important.

Once you remove the pilot, the public doesnt really care about what you do, because they have no connection to the place of war. Just look at the U.S. Drone Operations in the Middle East, noone cares alot about them. If they shoot down a drone, than it barely makes the news. If a pilot dies or worse gets captured and dragged through the media, all hell breaks loose. For that reason alone the next generation fighters will loose their pilotseat

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...does that mean I get to upload a mission task into Diana's computers, send her off with a cheery wave & a whispered "go get 'em girl!", then make a cuppa and wait until she comes back?

 

(Diana is my AAV, I've got her name painted on her nose together with kill markers. She has her own space in the hangar and everything. I will cry if she doesn't make it back from a mission...)

 

 

.....and I'm back on the meds that work... AHEM! :P 

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It's just a matter of time until a way is found to jam UAV signals which will totally invalidate their usefulness. I wouldn't put my eggs in that basket at all. 

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  If you go autonomous, wouldn't that be called a "cruise missile"? Push the button, job done! Heck of a lot cheaper than a reusable aircraft.

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The F-35 subscribes to "The Lord of The Rings" theory of Aerial Combat:

 

"ONE PLANE TO RULE THEM ALL"

 

It harkens back to the era of Robert McNamara and his "Whiz Kids" during the 60's, making all of the Services use one Airframe for Multi Mission capability. A very good example of this thinking was the F-111; great Bomber/ECM airplane for the USAF, but a terrible Air Superiority Fighter for the USN. That's where the F-14 came from.

 

One of the F-35's Missions with the USMC/USAF is for Close Air Support, currently handled by the A-10 Warthog.

 

The 1st time an F-35 is lost performing a CAS Mission, with its $100 million price tag (- Engine!), someone in the Pentagon is really gonna have a conniption fit, especially when all of the Warthogs are sitting in the AZ sunshine @ AMARC, perfectly fit and ready to go!

 

Alan  :smile:

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It's just a matter of time until a way is found to jam UAV signals which will totally invalidate their usefulness. I wouldn't put my eggs in that basket at all. 

jamming mobile phone signals in a building is easy. Jamming directed signals (that are 100x more stronger than mobile phone signals) to satelites, on planes tens of kilometers away from you and you do not know the location from, is nigh on impossible and will always be.  Plus you still have the option of the playing flying autonomous. :)

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Ah, but now you're talking autonomous aircraft. If it were just unmanned, you'd still need an armchair pilot flying it from the base.

 

.... and LM have been training us all for the last few years!!  :Whistle:

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.... and LM have been training us all for the last few years!!  :Whistle:

Good one, Dave.

 

Now you've got me worrying when my 'Call-up' papers are going to drop thrugh the letterbox...I've been simming since '86.

 

Do you think that they've forgotten my details ? :Nail Biting:

 

Regards

Bill

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Good one, Dave.

 

Now you've got me worrying when my 'Call-up' papers are going to drop thrugh the letterbox...I've been simming since '86.

 

Do you think that they've forgotten my details ? :Nail Biting:

 

Regards

Bill

 

I don't mind putting the hours in Bill - just as long as they cover the cost of the broadband! :LMAO:

 

edit: RAF Woodvale Bill? Sounds like you are in training already!!

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Excellent conversation!

 

As a Canadian my country has been caught in the gray foggy middle ground of the valley of indecision with the F35.

 

The more Canadians are told about it, the less certain we seem to be. One thing for certain, if we go this route the Royal Canadian Air Force will be very small.  Indeed, The F35, if adopted by the RCAF, will result in far fewer aircraft at a much later date than otherwise would have been.

 

I don't know what we should do, let alone have an informed opinion on its adoption for others. I am quite underwhelmed, but admittedly in a gray fog about it, like many of us might be. 

 

Kindest regards

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Excellent conversation!

 

As a Canadian my country has been caught in the gray foggy middle ground of the valley of indecision with the F35.

 

The more Canadians are told about it, the less certain we seem to be. One thing for certain, if we go this route the Royal Canadian Air Force will be very small.  Indeed, The F35, if adopted by the RCAF, will result in far fewer aircraft at a much later date than otherwise would have been.

 

I don't know what we should do, let alone have an informed opinion on its adoption for others. I am quite underwhelmed, but admittedly in a gray fog about it, like many of us might be. 

 

Kindest regards

 

As I am both an Aussie and Canadian the biggest difference I see between Australia and Canada is military spending. Australia spends far more money on national defense then Canada yet Australia has a smaller population. Canada seems to piggy back on America when it comes to national defense. Like the Kiwi's do with Australia. What I really notice here in Canada is all the armed forces use old and tired equipment and when the government says anything about spending money on defense the media and public go crazy.

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Thank you for those helpful observations about Canada and our military ranking Pete. Much appreciated!

 

All the more, since we do have limited funds available, it is necessary for us to make the right decisions in our military procurement. Whether or not to continue with the F35 program is painful, as others have pointed out, due to considerations regarding cost/benefit per F35 copy, and the timetable for sufficient numbers required for full RCAF implementation.

 

Kind regards,

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My view is Canada should have bought the rights to produce the F-18 Super Hornet from Boeing and build them in Quebec. They did this in the past with the Canadair CF-104 Starfighter.

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My view is Canada should have bought the rights to produce the F-18 Super Hornet from Boeing and build them in Quebec. They did this in the past with the Canadair CF-104 Starfighter.

The Super Hornet is a great jet! Here is another 60 minutes clip. This time on the Aussie Super Hornets.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHcaI7Sw4II

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My view is Canada should have bought the rights to produce the F-18 Super Hornet from Boeing and build them in Quebec. They did this in the past with the Canadair CF-104 Starfighter.

 

Hi Matthew, good to see you.

 

Apparently another offer is in the making from others, but who knows. Trudeau campaigned against the F35 but after elected backed-down from the back-out, sort-of. 

 

I expect something a bit more solid will be forthcoming before parliament resumes..

 

Kind regards, 

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