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odourboy

Is X-Plane 11 Beta Throttled?

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I was testing different configuration options today to see how the various settings impacted my performance. It was no surprise that as I turned some settings up, images quality or scenery improved, while frame rates dropped.

 

In an effort to get better insight into what all was happening, I set up CPU and GPU memory and processor utilization monitors, and with that, I got a real surprise...

 

It appeared that regardless of settings, neither my GPU nor my CPU utilization were ever maxing out (unlike FSX and P3D where they will routinely max out if i crank up the right settings). In fact, CPU seemed rarely move much over 50% or so, even as frame rates dropped (GPU was not maxed either).

 

I find this really odd and wonder if the X-Plane team has somehow throttled XP11? Anyone else seeing this or offer an explanation for what I'm seeing?

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I don't have the technical expertise to diagnose this, but I can say that I've never heard of Laminar doing anything like this for previous XP10 beta versions during that product run. I can't imagine why they'd do that with the XP11 beta. 

 

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LM knows there are bugs with the rendering engine and low FPS. It's listed at the top of the bug list.

 

So they may not be purposely throttling it (why would they?), but it is reasonable to think that it may not be taking full advantage of all available hardware yet.

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Yep, FPS looks very weird now. I think it is beta limitation and will be optimized in stable release.

Look: almost empty lanscape and so high CPU utilization. And no full load of GPU and CPU

 

 

x11jpg_3501522_24188595.jpg

 

 

(i7 6700K@4.5GZ GTX1080OC, 16GB DDR4 3200, 4K res. monitor)

Also VC view is too gluttonous and get ~30-40% of FPS.

I've sent to LR a bug report about it.

 

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It would seem highly unlikely LR would purposely reduce CPU/GPU utilization -- are you sure it's not just because you changed focus and/or task priority?

 

I have single core (Main thread) at around 90+ % with the remaining cores around 20-50% ... memory usage was 12GB and VRAM usage around 4GB.

 

Made a quick video (4K) for you, using IXEG 737 with xEnviro enabled.

 

 

Cheers, Rob.

 

EDIT GPU Utilization at max 100%

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It would seem highly unlikely LR would purposely reduce CPU/GPU utilization -- are you sure it's not just because you changed focus and/or task priority?

 

I have single core (Main thread) at around 90+ % with the remaining cores around 20-50% ... memory usage was 12GB and VRAM usage around 4GB.

 

Made a quick video (4K) for you, using IXEG 737 with xEnviro enabled.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6qOG5o-reU

 

Cheers, Rob.

 

EDIT GPU Utilization at max 100%

I don'the belive it'seems a focus issue, but it could be a memory issue. My system is light on RAM (8Gb) and VRAM (4 Gb), so I may be starving the processors due to lack of storage for the configuration, based on seeing your memory figures. I just noticed this this evening... I'll dig into it further tomorrow. Thanks for checking it out on you system.

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I find this really odd and wonder if the X-Plane team has somehow throttled XP11?

 

Make sure that if you have 4gb of vram or less, Texture Quality needs to be one notch below "Maximum (no compression)" this setting will kill fps. Also make sure Threaded Optimization is off for XPlane profile  in Nvidia's control panel (assuming you have a GTX).

 

I would also suggest to lock your frames to "Half of refresh" (assuming you have a 60hz monitor), this will give you a butter smooth experience.

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Make sure that if you have 4gb of vram or less, Texture Quality needs to be one notch below "Maximum (no compression)" this setting will kill fps. Also make sure Threaded Optimization is off for XPlane profile  in Nvidia's control panel (assuming you have a GTX).

 

I would also suggest to lock your frames to "Half of refresh" (assuming you have a 60hz monitor), this will give you a butter smooth experience.

Check, check and check! But thanks for the pointers.

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I would also suggest to lock your frames to "Half of refresh" (assuming you have a 60hz monitor), this will give you a butter smooth experience.

Is that done in the nVidia control panel...? That used to work in my FSX days (if I recall correctly): so this does work with X-Plane? I know it doesn't work with P3D anymore.

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Maybe Laminar should include some useless background processes that make sure the CPU and the GPU are always_maxed_out. Everybody will be so happy and praise the good design!  :P

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Yep, FPS looks very weird now. I think it is beta limitation and will be optimized in stable release.

Look: almost empty lanscape and so high CPU utilization. And no full load of GPU and CPU

 

 

x11jpg_3501522_24188595.jpg

 

 

(i7 6700K@4.5GZ GTX1080OC, 16GB DDR4 3200, 4K res. monitor)

Also VC view is too gluttonous and get ~30-40% of FPS.

I've sent to LR a bug report about it.

 

Reading your HW and video 4K res, how does XP11 work in such 4K environment ? That would be very close to my next rig, 7700K, 1080ti.

 

now I have a 7 years old pc  :smile:

 

Could you run it @ 4K all maxed out + few maxed out addons ?

 

Thx ! 

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My GTX 1080 has never passed 50 percent utilization in the few times I've checked. However, vram has gotten up to 6 GB on my 4K monitor.

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Maybe Laminar should include some useless background processes that make sure the CPU and the GPU are always_maxed_out. Everybody will be so happy and praise the good design!  :P

 

Why the unnecessary sarcasm?  This was a sensible discussion about users observations.

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I've hit a 100% CPU usage.

 

I have noted this as well,  In fact, XP11 has run my CPU temp up more than than P3D or any other application/game that I use.  I would hope that the final version does not do this.

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My GTX 1080 has never passed 50 percent utilization in the few times I've checked. However, vram has gotten up to 6 GB on my 4K monitor.

 

Same here. I noted (in another venue) a few days ago that right over downtown Manhattan with most settings maxed, my 1080 was at about 54% 

 

I was speculating that the sim is extremely CPU-dependent right now, and I wonder a bit about the fact that max objects also seems to set max road traffic in XP11, which was always both a CPU hog, and a frame-rate issue in XPX.

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Same here, I noted (in another venue) a few days ago that right over downtown Manhattan with most settings maxed, my 1080 was at about 54% 

 

I was speculating that the sim is extremely CPU-dependent right now, and I wonder a bit about the fact that max objects also sets max road traffic in XP11, which was always both a CPU hog, and a frame-rate issue in XPX.

 

Based upon that, do you think that they can balance the GPU - CPU load better?

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Could you run it @ 4K all maxed out + few maxed out addons ?

In XP11 beta now not so comfortable as in XP10 or P3D. I can't say I could run it all maxed out at 4K.

VC also takes so much FPS. Hope it's beta related troubles.

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Based upon that, do you think that they can balance the GPU - CPU load better?

 

My first thought was that a separate slider for road traffic might be good, as I always moderated traffic in XPX for better FPS.

 

My second thought was that they had (maybe) combined some sliders for more coherent beta testing.

 

Third thought was that less sliders was less confusing for newer users (and would lessen the nightmare of Steam support) at a loss of granular control for the more experienced, who were likely to be perturbed

 

Forth thought was an "Advanced" tab. To address all those points.

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it was also explained in some video afaik where someone noticed the issue with cpu's with more than 4 cores where utilization was never more than 50%. It doesnt happen with 4 cores

 

4cores

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCUpm7PohuE

 

 

8cores

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6osQ7yBu3TA

 

That's interesting.  My 4790k with hyperthreading on sits at less than 40% utilization.  So it must be that XP is written to only load up 4 cores.

 

Edit: more accurately, the operating system schedules the threads from XP and sees no need to load up the virtual cores.

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The underutilization I reported in the opening post is on a i5 3570K, which is (if anybody remembers that far back in CPU technology) a 4 core non HT CPU. So this is becoming curiouser and curiouser !

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Is that done in the nVidia control panel...?

 

Yes, and it definitely works.

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This CPU core utilization is about what I would expect and consistent with other FS platforms.  I've discussed this many times in the past, but there will always be one main synchronization thread ... in this case it looks either LR or Win10 shifted that main thread OFF of core 0 where the OS does most of it's work -- this is good.

 

Thread Optimization (from GPU driver level) was "fixed" in XP 10.41 I believe ... but as a test I did try it disabled and performance dropped considerably.

 

On my setup, Shadows ON/OFF make no difference to performance ... but the shadows don't look good, extremely coarse/jagged so I turn them off.  I actually see a very slight increase (1-2 fps) in performance when my textures are set to Max with NO Compression.

 

Where performance drops significantly is with the AA setting (at 4K) ... I would prefer to run 4XSSAA but currently run at 2XSSAA+FXAA ... image quality is still very good at 2X SSAA+FXAA but I will see some jagged lines here and there but acceptable.

 

Performance will also drop ONLY in the VC when HDR is set to Max, so I keep HDR 1 notch below max.

 

I haven't noticed much of a difference in "reflections" setting in terms of performance, currently have it mid-way ... I have noticed that reflections seem a little "off" and/or delay in updating on the surface/fuselage ... good example is PMDG's DC-6 (default paint) but can also be seen on other default aircraft.

 

For those new to XP, Aerosoft provide several custom airports at "pretty good" quality levels as part of XP (EBBR, EDDF, EDDT, EGLL, and more) - this video was at LFMN (Nice) ... goto the Custom Scenery folder to see the list.  If I go to EGLL then performance drops to around 17-19 FPS.

 

For Beta, I actually think the performance is reasonably good for what LR is achieving with AG and lighting (PBR does take some processing muscle) keeping in mind this is at 4K.  xEnviro does have some issues -- DC-6 props go flat gray when viewed with xEnviro sky background from below the aircraft -- hard haze line at certain altitude, but is a great improvement over default.  I have SkyMaxx Pro V3, so will wait for V4 and see what they offer also (assuming of course the dev of that product accepts any level of critique and doesn't come back with childish comments).

 

It does look like I might need to increase my system RAM from 16GB to 32GB based on the VAS number currently at 12GB ... I would imagine as I add 3rd party PR scenery that VAS number will increase.

 

Some things I would like to see:

1.  Shadow options by object type (for example no shadows for trees - shadows on a X never look right)

2.  Shadow quality option

3.  Native support for 30Hz

4.  Fix to the sky banding/gradient

5.  Independent ability to control AI density from UI

 

Still, pretty impressive for a Beta and IMHO much improved over XP10.

 

Cheers, Rob.

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This CPU core utilization is about what I would expect and consistent with other FS platforms.  I've discussed this many times in the past, but there will always be one main synchronization thread ... in this case it looks either LR or Win10 shifted that main thread OFF of core 0 where the OS does most of it's work -- this is good.

 

 

I also believe Thread Optimization should be on - great write up - what amazes me with XP11 has a ton of AI automobiles and aircraft and they just work no need to turn them down not noticing any hit from them - would be nice to have AI slider but I dont think I will be turning them down and I flew out of Mr. D New York Airports and has his NY city product and saw no difference in performance - that alone is amazing to me

 

32gig of ram here so that may be a good thing

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