FSW from a 3rd party perspective.

[Gibbage 199]

5 hours ago, DTG_Aimee said:

This is not the case, as we repeatedly have stated 

Our baseline is that you can sell on your own store, which means all the simmers who have been buying from you the past ten years can continue to do so. We ask that you also make your add-ons available on our channels, but we are not limiting the places you can sell. If you have any questions or wish to discuss things further, please contact our Third Party team. 

Thanks,

Aimee

Thank you for the clarification.  I will make the edit when I get home. One question I have is for me to sell my product through dovetail, I must have the license to use the aircraft from the maker.  If I would sell my own product, but must also sell through dovetail, that would still mean I need to secure a license?  

That requirement is a massive limiting factor for us developers and will greatly limit what we can produce. That's the key point of that section of my post. Requiring the product also being sold on your store limits what aircraft we can motel due to the need for a license. 

Kevin

[Gibbage 199]

1 hour ago, BEARlyThereCDN said:

I honestly don't remember the days when FSX was released - I anyone remember what level of involvement and interaction ACES had with 3PP's and vice versa?

I kind of like what I'm seeing here from DTG. 

We (Aces) has little to no interaction with 3rd party developer's. Microsoft released the Sdk with limited document's and the developer's did whatever they wanted. It truly was the wild west!  There was no quality control, and no security. Some add-ons would crash online servers due to bad coding or heavy art assets. Developer's loved this as there was no big brother telling you what to do. 

This in  some ways was bad for customers.  You never knew what you were going to get and had to rely on forum reviews before you paid for your add-on.   It also allowed us to do whatever we wanted with little to no consequences. Bad developer's were wedded out by the community. 

Many developers won't this, as they prefer the wild west, but a closed development is the norm through the game industry. I think that if Fsw is successful, it could lead to massive profits for developers. This development system is already being used in Dcs quite well and I have worked on a few projects in Dcs.

Kevin

[BEARlyThereCDN 46]

Thank you Gibbage, I thought I remembered it that way. In fact, I don't ever remember anyone from ACES interacting on community forums outside of MS. Not saying it didn't happen, I just don't remember seeing it.

I lived through those times and a couple of times before (FS2004, etc). Like I said, I was burned more than once and don't care to live through those times again.

If DTG's newish platform and model thrive, maybe we can say "And this is how the sim-West was won!".

Barry

[Gibbage 199]

We were forbidden to interact outside the company due to a heavy Nda.  With that said, my Nda on Fs11 expired a long time ago, so if anyone wants any info on that... it's for another thread ;)

 

Kevin Miller 

[MadDog 353]

2 minutes ago, Gibbage said:

my Nda on Fs11 expired a long time ago, so if anyone wants any info on that... it's for another thread ;)

Oooh... that would be really interesting to know !!!  I'll bet a discussion on God Rays must be in there somewhere .

[ca_metal 2,025]

1 hour ago, Gibbage said:

We were forbidden to interact outside the company due to a heavy Nda.  With that said, my Nda on Fs11 expired a long time ago, so if anyone wants any info on that... it's for another thread ;)

 

Kevin Miller 

Please, tell what were the plans. LOL

[rhumbaflappy 113]

I would hope online freeware libraries could continue for FSW.

For example AVSIM's library.

There's a lot of hobbyists that simply like to create airports, repaints, home area sceneries, and share them with the community. And further to the point, this is how almost all commercial developers started, and how development techniques are formed. Steam might not cut it for all non-commercial developers. These forums, that are tied to the libraries, are their natural repositories, where the feedback is more likely to happen.

I think forcing everything through Steam is not a good idea. Maybe this would lead to the wild west, but that led to the phenomenal growth of FS9 and FSX, much of that happening right here at AVSIM.

 

Dick

[tlorey 5]

This has been an interesting discussion! The future of flight sims looks very bright.

I've been away from flight simming for a couple of years now - I totally lost interest after the MS Flight meltdown. The announcement about FSW has made me want to come back. I'm very excited about the visual improvements - that's important to me now that I've had experience with other games and sims (FSX and FS 2004 look very dated). 

I still have to decide which sim to purchase: FSW, X-Plane 11, or Aerofly 2. I'm leaning towards FSW for a couple of reasons - price is one, and the fact that FSW is based on FSX is another. Since FSW is based on FSX, transitioning to it should be pretty easy for those of us who are used to FSX. Will the keyboard commands remain the same?

I also like the fact that there will be a MIssion Maker included right from the start - I used to enjoy making missions for FSX. How will we be able to get those mission out to the community? Will it be through sites like the AVSIM library? Will this also be true for freeware models and repaints? I agree that forcing us to go through steam with freeware isn't a good idea.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed - I sure hope this works out better for the community than MS Flight did.  

 

 

 

 

[n4gix 4,947]

7 hours ago, Gibbage said:

We (Aces) has little to no interaction with 3rd party developer's. Microsoft released the Sdk with limited document's and the developer's did whatever they wanted.

Kevin, Phil was very active here at AVSIM during the early days of FSX, as was Susan Ashlock...

[Gibbage 199]

36 minutes ago, n4gix said:

Kevin, Phil was very active here at AVSIM during the early days of FSX, as was Susan Ashlock...

Yes there was designated members who were active, but 99% of us were under strict orders to not talk about anything to anyone as is typical with any software development.  

[rsrandazzo 6,353]

10 hours ago, DTG_Aimee said:

Thank you. If he gets in touch we'll be happy to speak to him 

Aimee,

I am so "happy" to learn that you would be "happy" to speak with me if we reach out.

How would you recommend we convert your happiness into actual communication?  The traditional methods of reaching out via email have apparently not met with enough happiness that anyone felt they were important enough to answer. 

You all have my office number, my mobile number, both of my email addresses- and you have used them plenty when it suited your needs...

 

[kevinfirth 1,396]

1 hour ago, rsrandazzo said:

Aimee,

I am so "happy" to learn that you would be "happy" to speak with me if we reach out.

How would you recommend we convert your happiness into actual communication?  The traditional methods of reaching out via email have apparently not met with enough happiness that anyone felt they were important enough to answer. 

You all have my office number, my mobile number, both of my email addresses- and you have used them plenty when it suited your needs...

 

Robert, just the last paragraph would have sufficed I think.  The comments prior to that arent congruent with your usual professional approach, and whilst I understand the feelings being expressed, I would have to question - is Aimee really the right target for the expression of those in that way in public fora?  My perception of PMDG as a customer has declined a little I'm afraid :(

 

PS I understand youve replied privately as well and the content of that is rightly none of our business..

[Wobbie 938]

I do remember the lack of communication from ACES when FS2004 & FSX was released. Did it matter to us? Of course not.

MS/ACES sold us the engine, & the market was then wide open for both freeware & payware developers to get on board. WE did not know any better, & were/are still very thankful to all that put their stuff on the many free sites that are out there, some even better than payware. We also had no problem buying from whichever on-line store where the pay guys decided to sell their stuff. We were able, in most cases to communicate directly with the developers, & even built up a relationship with them.

Now, it seems, that our choices have been curtailed & very limited, with free enterprise pretty much blocked.

Times have changed, is it a case of fit in, or fly off? 

[Wobbie 938]

Guys, also just remember, it's only a game, & there are, believe it or not, some of us out here that are actually not interested in PMDG stuff. Some of us actually just want to have a bit of low 'n slow fun, & not really interested in flying by the numbers, as it were. Just maybe WE are DTG's target market, & not the tube & bus drivers?

Methinks I detect a bit of petulance out there?

[Alphafoxsierra 166]

3 hours ago, rsrandazzo said:

How would you recommend we convert your happiness into actual communication?  

Thank you for getting in touch, Robert. I will respond to your message imminently.