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Milviz - Upgrade to P3D v4 Payments

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Just received this from Just Flight.  Waht gives, Milviz??

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

As you bought the following aircraft for FSX and P3D from the Just Flight website, we thought we'd let you know that the software has now been updated for P3D v4 compatibility:

F-100D Super Sabre: https://www.justflight.com/product/milviz-f100d-super-sabre-p3dv4

Unfortunately, MilViz are charging Just Flight customers for this update – unlike ourselves and most other developers from whom we have received P3D v4 updates – and in spite of the fact that they are providing the update free of charge to customers who bought the aircraft direct from MilViz.

So, it is with great reluctance that we must charge you £3.50 / €4.50 / $5.00 for this update.

If you do wish to get the new P3D v4 compatible aircraft, just buy it as you would normally from the above link to the Just Flight website and use the discount code- this will reduce the marked price to £3.50 / €4.50 / $5.99.

If you do NOT wish to purchase the new P3D v4 version, your existing purchase will, of course, remain in your account and flyable in your simulator.

Once again, our sincere apologies for having to charge you for this update but I’m afraid the decision was taken out of our hands.

Best wishes,

The Just Flight Crew

 

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Ripoff!

Are they charging extra to pay for bandwidth? Are they charging just for Milviz or all products?

That's enough to discourage me from purchasing from resellers in the future.

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Either Just Flight need better checks in place or that code shouldn't have been shared publicly, because it works for everyone, regardless if you own it or not.

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18 minutes ago, bills511 said:

Ripoff!

Are they charging extra to pay for bandwidth? Are they charging just for Milviz or all products?

That's enough to discourage me from purchasing from resellers in the future.

If you go to Milviz website you would know that the 5$ upgrade is from MilViz for P3Dv4 upgrade.  It's not free as Just Flight claims.  If you buy new from MilViz, the price includes the 5$ upgrade fees.  

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This isn't a shot at Just Flight - it is at Milviz for introducing a fee for the update - but only aiming it at re-sellers, which is unfair, as we all buy exactly the same product.

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21 minutes ago, Anxu00 said:

If you go to Milviz website you would know that the 5$ upgrade is from MilViz for P3Dv4 upgrade.  It's not free as Just Flight claims.  If you buy new from MilViz, the price includes the 5$ upgrade fees.  

Not so. I updated my F86 to P3Dv4. No charge.

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11 minutes ago, bills511 said:

Not so. I updated my F86 to P3Dv4. No charge.

This is correct.

 

Milviz does *not* charge for updates if you purchased direct from them.

 

Regarding the person who said it's "unfair", they also get less profit when selling through a reseller...

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8 minutes ago, Raven9000 said:

This is correct.

 

Milviz does *not* charge for updates if you purchased direct from them.

 

Regarding the person who said it's "unfair", they also get less profit when selling through a reseller...

Are they obliged to use reselles ...?

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1 minute ago, neucoas said:

Are they obliged to use reselles ...?

Nope, and neither are you :)

 

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Yes, I can also confirm that Milviz did not charge for the P3D v4 version of my F86, which I bought directly from them.

Having said that, I'm not too happy with Milviz lately. They have released "updated" versions of three aircraft which I bought only months earlier and while I could upgrade at a reduced price, that reduced price was still substantially higher than the average price of most other FSX/P3D add-ons. As a result, I only took up the offer on one of the aircraft, the F86 as I really like that era aircraft and it came with TacPak (which I've never actually used). The other two, the TA-38 and UH-1C Huey "Redux", I didn't bother, so I'm still stuck with two older unsupported versions.

In addition, I bought two Milviz aircraft, the P-38 Redbull Redux and JU-87 Stuka, which only months after I bought them were released as freeware. While the rest of the flight sim community was obviously very happy about that, I was the sucker who sponsored that and got nothing in return.

I'm in two minds about Milviz; one half of me says yes they produce great aircraft and deserve to charge well-above average prices and for every little iteration and upgrade, the other half of me says that they have become greedy and unscrupulous. Unfortunately it is the latter half of me which is winning at the moment, because I have stopped buying their products. This little exercise with JustFlight further supports my decision. I've had many dealings with JustFlight and they are one of the fairest and honest companies I have dealt with. So, if they say that it is Milviz which is responsible for the "upgrade" fee, then it is obvious who I will believe.

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And so it begins.... Lockheed-Martin's P3D Exclusive Club hasn't been very Exclusive until the change to 64-bit, and no-one can really accuse the P3D 3rd party developers of being greedy and unscrupulous - the one thing everyone knows about Exclusive Clubs is that they can charge whatever they like, how else can they stay Exclusive?

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Conversion of C/C++ code from 32-bit to 64-bit isn't always a simple matter of a recompile.  I suppose you think the developers should be doing that work unpaid?

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MilViz did indicate it's policy here:

 

 

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I don't think that's the point he is making at all Ed. No need to defend an attack that hasn't materialised.

I think the point of the OP is why a penalty for people purchasing through JustFlight and not for those purchasing direct. The 'work to convert' you mentioned was required, regardless of customer type. It's a clear play of "we won't charge direct customers because we already made more profit on the sale to them. We will charge people buying through resellers though because we didn't make as much first time round" Whilst that's all fine. It's strange for a developer to have that attitude and make it a sour experience for the customer. Maybe just don't sell through resellers then? Oh, you like the big exposure they give you, you say... well then value JustFlights contribution to your marketing and don't pass on costs to the end user.. The OP is right to feel a bit put out, but Dev's can do as they please of course.

 

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25 minutes ago, Martyn Pearson said:

I don't think that's the point he is making at all Ed. No need to defend an attack that hasn't materialised.

I think the point of the OP is why a penalty for people purchasing through JustFlight and not for those purchasing direct. The 'work to convert' you mentioned was required, regardless of customer type. It's a clear play of "we won't charge direct customers because we already made more profit on the sale to them. We will charge people buying through resellers though because we didn't make as much first time round" Whilst that's all fine. It's strange for a developer to have that attitude and make it a sour experience for the customer. Maybe just don't sell through resellers then? Oh, you like the big exposure they give you, you say... well then value JustFlights contribution to your marketing and don't pass on costs to the end user.. The OP is right to feel a bit put out, but Dev's can do as they please of course.

 

So I take it you think the resellers should work for free? In many businesses who sell both direct and through resellers this is always an issue. The developer has a choice, sell it through a reseller and take less profit due to reseller charges, increase the cost to cover the reseller charges and/or sell direct and not have any reseller charges.

What is happening here is in no way UNFAIR - it's pure business. Milviz needs to make $xx.xx/sale and if there are additional charges added by the reseller - they pass them on.

Vic

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No, and I don't think you have understood my post at all. Justflight wanted to distribute the update for free, so you would suspect the charge is being put upon JustFlight by Milviz, as cash is flowing back to them. If the cash was only going to JustFlight, why would they be writing an email about wanting to make it free like they do their own products? You suspect they want to charge MilViz for issuing an update, but not the customer? I doubt it.

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The heart of this topic is exactly what level of ongoing service and support do we buy into when we purchase an add-on. Clearly that's a movable feast, if you look at the vastly differing stances on converting software to P3DV4.

To the developers who've passed on the conversion at no extra cost, I say well done, you've created superb customer goodwill and can look forward to even greater loyalty going forward.

While I can understand that some smaller developers may find it difficult to provide these conversions for free, isn't it also true that, to survive as businesses, they simply have to make their products 64-bit compatible?

It's clear that FSX is now more or less history and most of us will be ditching P3DV3 as soon as the NGX and Orbx airport sceneries make their cost free jump to the new de facto platform, which I imagine will be any day now (although Orbx's current silence on timescale is a bit disconcerting).

Therefore might it be fair to suggest that developers who charge for this are directly passing on the cost of staying in business to their customers? That's certainly something they are entitled to do, but I really do wonder if some companies are treating this as an opportunity to generate a bit of profit out of the process? Again perfectly acceptable in a free market, just as it's perfectly acceptable if customers choose to boycott those companies in future.

And another thought. Surely the move to 64-bit and consequent end to OOM-related problems actually creates a lighter, less expensive, support workload for developers to deal with?

 

 

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56 minutes ago, vgbaron said:

So I take it you think the resellers should work for free? In many businesses who sell both direct and through resellers this is always an issue. The developer has a choice, sell it through a reseller and take less profit due to reseller charges, increase the cost to cover the reseller charges and/or sell direct and not have any reseller charges.

What is happening here is in no way UNFAIR - it's pure business. Milviz needs to make $xx.xx/sale and if there are additional charges added by the reseller - they pass them on.

Vic

Didn't we *just* have this same discussion about Simmarket and Justsim..?

 

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43 minutes ago, Martyn Pearson said:

No, and I don't think you have understood my post at all. Justflight wanted to distribute the update for free, so you would suspect the charge is being put upon JustFlight by Milviz, as cash is flowing back to them. If the cash was only going to JustFlight, why would they be writing an email about wanting to make it free like they do their own products? You suspect they want to charge MilViz for issuing an update, but not the customer? I doubt it.

Not really sure what the point of the post is then...

This policy applies to *all* resellers, not just JustFlight...

They stated customers who purchased through a reseller have the upgrade fee. 

Nobody said JustFlight is charging for themselves, the point of the email is very simple: they don't want to be pointed out as the bad guy, and are highlighting that it is Milviz the one that is charging the fee. 

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I received hostile support from Milviz after purchasing the B55 a long time ago, they had no interest in bug fixing the airplane or getting the Reality-XP integration advertised to work right. They refused a refund and even refused a free upgrade to the Flight1 gps integration since realityxp had bugs they did not care about. And now they want to charge for a small amount of work updating the gauges to p3dv4. A2A, JustFlight, and other devs do a much better job and I'll support them instead.

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Since this is just turning into the same old gripe session - let's move on to something new.

Vic

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