Terblanche

[AGAIN!!] P3D4 PMDG

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All I want to say is this - LM will have to rework/reprogram this whole Dynamic Lights system of theirs. On my very decent  system with GTX 1070 the FPS plummet down a mine shaft when you switch them on. During the day my FPS is locked at 30 and it remains on 29+ all the way with 2xSSAA and 'Use High Res' on and most sliders full or 75% ... BUT at night the FPS dies a brutal death! Even with MSAA and High Res OFF it hovers below 20 FPS. When you switch the DL off it's back to normal but then you loose landing/taxi lights and all other effects that begs the question: if DL is suppose to have its effect at night then why be the killer?

This is NOT the PMDG 738 but the whole DL system in general and in particular.

I hope PMDG and other developers are in contact with LM to sort this out.

#gatvol

 

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27 minutes ago, Terblanche said:

All I want to say is this - LM will have to rework/reprogram this whole Dynamic Lights system of theirs. On my very decent  system with GTX 1070 the FPS plummet down a mine shaft when you switch them on. During the day my FPS is locked at 30 and it remains on 29+ all the way with 2xSSAA and 'Use High Res' on and most sliders full or 75% ... BUT at night the FPS dies a brutal death! Even with MSAA and High Res OFF it hovers below 20 FPS. When you switch the DL off it's back to normal but then you loose landing/taxi lights and all other effects that begs the question: if DL is suppose to have its effect at night then why be the killer?

This is NOT the PMDG 738 but the whole DL system in general and in particular.

I hope PMDG and other developers are in contact with LM to sort this out.

#gatvol

 

Weird as I have the same GPU with no framerate dips even with all the lights on at midnight. The whole dynamic lighting performance thing seems to be hit or miss. One update improves performance for some, the same update makes frames drop by 10-15 for some others. Might I suggest posting this on the Prepar3D forum so LM's support staff can see it?

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Have you started from scratch on your sim? I had the same issues as you before and only cured them by reinstall of the entire P3D. 

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7 minutes ago, Milton Waddams said:

One update improves performance for some, the same update makes frames drop by 10-15 for some others.

May I ask:

  • What driver are you using for 1070?
  • Do you have ORBX Global, Europe and US LC installed? [Could the amount of lights have an influence?]

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3 minutes ago, warriorpilot said:

Have you started from scratch on your sim? I had the same issues as you before and only cured them by reinstall of the entire P3D.

Yip ... twice now. With the B744 it seems to settle when you do the 360° pan in outside view ... horrible FPS when you load and the settles back at 30FPS (locked) after the 360-swing. Still can't use landing lights on 2xSSAA though because the B744 will crash and burn the F through the P all the way to the S :blush:

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7 minutes ago, warriorpilot said:

SSAA can be very taxing. 

That is an understatement.  Unfortunately, P3Dv4 defaults to a high SSAA setting.  I must be set to an MSAA setting for most systems.  For most, a 2xMSAA setting is sufficient for a 4K display where less AA is required than lower resolutions.  The higher the resolution the less AA you need.

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2 hours ago, Terblanche said:

May I ask:

  • What driver are you using for 1070?
  • Do you have ORBX Global, Europe and US LC installed? [Could the amount of lights have an influence?]

Latest driver, Orbx Global only. I doubt it considering Orbx's region lights aren't dynamic, just their regular lights.

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9 hours ago, downscc said:

For most, a 2xMSAA setting is sufficient for a 4K display where less AA is required than lower resolutions.  The higher the resolution the less AA you need.

The thing is that I don't have a 4K monitor because they are ridiculously expensive in South Africa. During the day, as I said in first post, the FPS are steady and locked except for the irritating shimmering in P3D that I don't have in FSX at all ... flying however at night in P3D4 on my PC at least, is a nightmare.

And because I'm one of a chorus of voices raising this issue, it cannot be my setup specific, as I was hoping to fix it when I bought the 1070 (also expensive) just to realise instead of 8-10 FPS on the GTX750, I now get 20 FPS at night. It's actually quite laughable = $800 (GTX1070) + $200 (P3D4) + B744 ($135) + B738 ($90) = $1225 later and I have to whirl to a forum to ask for help.

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1 hour ago, Terblanche said:

The thing is that I don't have a 4K monitor because they are ridiculously expensive in South Africa. During the day, as I said in first post, the FPS are steady and locked except for the irritating shimmering in P3D that I don't have in FSX at all ... flying however at night in P3D4 on my PC at least, is a nightmare.

And because I'm one of a chorus of voices raising this issue, it cannot be my setup specific, as I was hoping to fix it when I bought the 1070 (also expensive) just to realise instead of 8-10 FPS on the GTX750, I now get 20 FPS at night. It's actually quite laughable = $800 (GTX1070) + $200 (P3D4) + B744 ($135) + B738 ($90) = $1225 later and I have to whirl to a forum to ask for help.

Hi Terblanche

I'm totally with you.  I have too just upgraded from a 970 to a 1070.  Happy with this upgrade until I purchased the 737 NGX the other day and realised at night my FPS was in the teens.  Turn DL off and hey presto +30.  Thing is I have been running my AA set at 4 x SSAA to cure the insufferable shimmering of night lights in particular, anything less doesn't help.  8 x SSAA completely resolves the issue but my frames are cut by 60% if not more.  I run a bog standard 1080P resolution on one screen so not exactly cutting edge.  The advice I received was "oh no you can't have SSAA and DL on no no no".  So I have dropped to 8 x MSAA which has helped the FPS at night using DL however everything shimmers particularly at night.  I flew into KPHX last night and it looked terrible, its so distracting.

So I totally agree, this isn't PMDG fault its to do with LM.  At the moment I have these options:

Use 4 x SSAA on but don't fly at night with DL ON = next to no shimmering

Use 8 x MSAA which allows me to fly at night with DL ON = immersion killing shimmering from night lights really irritating

Use 4 x SSAA flying at night with DL OFF which means I can't find my way around the field at night because the landing/taxi lights don't work.

Hmmm.....

I'll be honest guys, I've switched from a very stable FSX SE with DX10 fixer and my sim looked better.  The only benefit I have gained from the switch to P3D v4 is no risk off OOM.  Not a happy camper at the moment.

Edited by sidfadc
amendd
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9 minutes ago, sidfadc said:

I'll be honest guys, I've switched from a very stable FSX SE with DX10 fixer and my sim looked better.  The only benefit I have gained from the switch to P3D v4 is no risk off OOM.  Not a happy camper at the moment.

100% with you on this one ... I haven't had any OOMs for years since abiding by two rules:

  • Only activate departure and destination airport
  • At heavies like EDDF and EGLL drop the water to 1x

Locked 30 and maintaining 30 day AND night. The only thing missing are cloud and cockpit shadows. That's it.

P3D4 looks great but performance wise my FSX kicks P3D4's a$$ big time ... 

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14 minutes ago, sidfadc said:

Hi Terblanche

I'm totally with you.  I have too just upgraded from a 970 to a 1070.  Happy with this upgrade until I purchased the 737 NGX the other day and realised at night my FPS was in the teens.  Turn DL off and hey presto +30.  Thing is I have been running my AA set at 4 x SSAA to cure the insufferable shimmering of night lights in particular, anything less doesn't help.  8 x SSAA completely resolves the issue but my frames are cut by 60% if not more.  I run a bog standard 1080P resolution on one screen so not exactly cutting edge.  The advice I received was "oh no you can't have SSAA and DL on no no no".  So I have dropped to 8 x MSAA which has helped the FPS at night using DL however everything shimmers particularly at night.  I flew into KPHX last night and it looked terrible, its so distracting.

So I totally agree, this isn't PMDG fault its to do with LM.  At the moment I have these options:

Use 4 x SSAA on but don't fly at night with DL ON = next to no shimmering

Use 8 x MSAA which allows me to fly at night with DL ON = immersion killing shimmering from night lights really irritating

Use 4 x SSAA flying at night with DL OFF which means I can't find my way around the field at night because the landing/taxi lights don't work.

Hmmm.....

I'll be honest guys, I've switched from a very stable FSX SE with DX10 fixer and my sim looked better.  The only benefit I have gained from the switch to P3D v4 is no risk off OOM.  Not a happy camper at the moment.

"I'll be honest guys, I've switched from a very stable FSX SE with DX10 fixer"

This is whats stopping me. Ive seen heaps of pics in v4 and there is not a wow moment when compared to my fsx se dx10  set up.

No night flying in PMDG is a deal breaker but I hope somebody does something over at LM because thats unacceptable

 

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24 minutes ago, Terblanche said:

P3D4 looks great but performance wise my FSX kicks P3D4's a$$ big time ... 

Hi @Terblanche, glad to see you again. With DL off, performance wise P3D V4 is a way better on my old system. In my view, DL is a new feature, maybe it will take some time to optimize it, or maybe new hardware is on the way. I'd like to have the option to use old landing ligths in the meantime. DL performance impact is 10+ FPS(with locked fps and depending on situation)on my system, so for now i fly with DL off, and i don't fly at night. Not realy a solution, i'm just patient.

Some people reported no FPS impact(something like 1080ti in SLI mode). I'm curoius about this - SLI, balanced system or P3D settings? We need more reports on this, it could be just "eye of the beholder" thing...

I ordered more RAM and i'll go for a new GPU soon, will see if it makes any difference(Just a placeholder until i build new PC). However, i uninstalled FSX finally

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Hello, I use a 1080ti with p3d4 4XSAA and shadows in the cockpit are shaking. What that means? Is that normal? My fps are stable 30-35 day-night with DL on.

The only thing it bothers me is som flickering witch I don't know how to prevent it, or are my settings wrong?

Geo

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Are you guys trying DSR 2.0 with MSAA 4?

When I had the GTX1070 I had no shimmering and great FPS with that setting. 

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Say what you want P3D4 ... this is what my FSX looks like on a normal day!

As I said - the only thing missing is cloud and cockpit shadows. For the rest my FSX hasn't had an OOM for years and it runs pretty much 30 FPS locked all the way.

Just for juice - this was a few nights ago ... FSX, Tromso (Aerosoft), NorwayLC (ORBX), PMDG 738

cFL1fm.jpg

 

 

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DSR doesn't work in windowed mode I believe which is a requirement of mine and doesn't it make all the text super tiny??

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2 hours ago, lodestar said:

However, i uninstalled FSX finally

I'm a long, LOOOOONG way from uninstalling FSX simply because I have 287 payware airports in my library and there is NO way in heaven or hell that P3D4 will get to that number in the next 10 years and going back to default airports is just not going to happen for me soon.

1 hour ago, georgiosgiannoukos said:

I use a 1080ti with p3d4 4XSAA and shadows in the cockpit are shaking. What that means? Is that normal? My fps are stable 30-35 day-night with DL on.

The only thing it bothers me is som flickering witch I don't know how to prevent it, or are my settings wrong?

That's what I refer to when I talk about the shimmering in P3D ... 4xSSAA does help but "when the night comes ..." ♪♫ {Bryan Adams} then all dies a sudden death and you're back on MS&A or kill the DL before the last breath settles in.

 

33 minutes ago, warriorpilot said:

Are you guys trying DSR 2.0 with MSAA 4?

When I had the GTX1070 I had no shimmering and great FPS with that setting.

Are you on a 4K monitor ...?

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19 minutes ago, Terblanche said:

I'm a long, LOOOOONG way from uninstalling FSX simply because I have 287 payware airports in my library and there is NO way in heaven or hell that P3D4 will get to that number in the next 10 years and going back to default airports is just not going to happen for me soon.

I can undestand this. I was thinking about using AFCADS only for some time since i care more about flying, but Naaaah.... I belive it can be done.

When you have time, can you please post your CPU speed and settings for P3D V4? I'm just curious, becouse those are mine:

 

No tweaks, and i have now shadow quality and draw distance set to medium, and my locked 30fps stays there during the entire flight with NGX(even at take off / landing at FlyTampa Airports). Like i stated before, i have DL off, but i'm curious about overall performance.

P.S. Sorry, i realized it's off toppic :blush: , i'll wait for my RAM and GPU before i post again here

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12 minutes ago, lodestar said:

When you have time, can you please post your CPU speed and settings for P3D V4? I'm just curious, becouse those are mine:

My CPU is a bit on the 'old' side i7 4790 3.6GHz with 32GB RAM with a GTX1070 (8GB) the rest of my P3D4 settings are .......

[DISPLAY]

The same as yours except AA on 4xSSAA during the day and 2xSSAA at night DL = OFF

[WORLD]

  • Level of detail = MAX
  • TF = HIGH
  • Mesh = 2m
  • TR = 7cm
  • Scenery Complex = DENSE
  • Autogen = HIGH
  • Autogen Veg & Buiding = NORMAL
  • Special FX = MEDIUM

[LIGHTING]

  • HDR = OFF [it looks unnatural and eat FPS] and I use PTA
  • DL = OFF
  • Shadow Quality = LOW
  • Shadow Draw = MED
  • Internal External Vehicle = CAST & RECEIVE
  • Clouds = CAST

[WEATHER]

Same as yours

PS: in the prepar3d.cfg I still have the following because on my rig it does make a difference.

[JOBSCHEDULER]
AffinityMask=85

 

 

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Guys

I also had very bad frames with P3Dv4 and Dynamic Lighting on. But only until I checked my Nvidia Inspector settings.
There was a left over from P3Dv3..... so reset the Prepare3D settings in inspector to default and try again!

Bruno

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15 hours ago, Terblanche said:

All I want to say is this - LM will have to rework/reprogram this whole Dynamic Lights system of theirs. On my very decent  system with GTX 1070 the FPS plummet down a mine shaft when you switch them on. During the day my FPS is locked at 30 and it remains on 29+ all the way with 2xSSAA and 'Use High Res' on and most sliders full or 75% ... BUT at night the FPS dies a brutal death! Even with MSAA and High Res OFF it hovers below 20 FPS. When you switch the DL off it's back to normal but then you loose landing/taxi lights and all other effects that begs the question: if DL is suppose to have its effect at night then why be the killer?

This is NOT the PMDG 738 but the whole DL system in general and in particular.

I hope PMDG and other developers are in contact with LM to sort this out.

#gatvol

 

Same issue!!

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14 minutes ago, bakerman said:

Guys

I also had very bad frames with P3Dv4 and Dynamic Lighting on. But only until I checked my Nvidia Inspector settings.
There was a left over from P3Dv3..... so reset the Prepare3D settings in inspector to default and try again!

Bruno

I have come from FSX SE so not touched NI profile for P3D.

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@Terblanche Thanks, i'm going to investigate it today. For the record, I get blurries if i use AM to exclude any core with my 2700K at 4.9Ghz. 

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