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Christopher Low

TFDi Design 717

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I do not know if this issue only affects the P3D version, but I have noticed that AutoRudder is disabled every time that I run the simulator subsequent to a session with the aircraft. I have enabled AutoRudder in the 717 options utility, but this does not seem to make a difference. This is in P3D v3.3.5. Has anyone else noticed this, or do the rest of you use rudder pedals?

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Another question......when I set the aircraft "Ready to Fly", it seems to have some kind of autothrottle system active if my thrust settings are deemed to be too low. How do I deactivate this? I want full manual control of the aircraft.

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Isn't stuff like this in the documentation?

I don't mean to be obtuse Christopher. I'm also currently looking at getting the 717 so I'm weighing up various reviews and youtube videos before I make the choice. Any general thoughts on the 717 in its current state? I realise it was pretty poor on release but I believe there have been many big updates since then.

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It may well be in the documentation, but sometimes it is quicker to get a response from an existing user on AVSIM!

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On 10-10-2017 at 6:35 PM, Christopher Low said:

I do not know if this issue only affects the P3D version, but I have noticed that AutoRudder is disabled every time that I run the simulator subsequent to a session with the aircraft. I have enabled AutoRudder in the 717 options utility, but this does not seem to make a difference. This is in P3D v3.3.5. Has anyone else noticed this, or do the rest of you use rudder pedals?

Well I don't fly without rudder pedals ;-)

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Hi Christopher,

I've used the CH Products Pro Throttle for decades (third unit) - has a full micro joystick under the thumb - works very well as a rudder - as I could never get comfortable at my desk when using full blown rudder pedals (which I have currently gathering dust)... Best of both worlds in my opinion and completely second nature now...

92f4fb88-925e-427e-b70d-1a6aef423910._V3

 

Regards,

Scott

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I do not understand the flight characteristics of this aircraft. When I make a turn at low speed, the nose starts to drop. So far, so good. However, the speed increases, and the nose never rises. It just keeps on pointing down. The PMDG 737NGX and 747-400 hand fly superbly at low speed with gear and flaps down, and the nose starts to rise as air speed increases during a turn. They are both very stable, and behave exactly as I would expect. However, the 717 is currently a complete mystery to me.

I really wish that I could learn to save my money, and concentrate on the aircraft that I already have :sad:

 

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It was btw this and the FSL A320. Going to get the A320 when released.

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2 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

Another question......when I set the aircraft "Ready to Fly", it seems to have some kind of autothrottle system active if my thrust settings are deemed to be too low. How do I deactivate this? I want full manual control of the aircraft.

I believe you want the AFS Override switches pulled down to avoid the "interference" with full manual control.  These are on the MCP below the AutoFlight button.  

The aircraft flies beautifully and is a nice change of scenery from the typical Airbus/Boeing environment.  Just spend a bit of time familiarizing with this bird and you'll be rewarded.

 

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Activating the AFS Override switches has solved the autothrottle problem, but I am still baffled by some aspects of the flight model.

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2 hours ago, Ebs said:

Isn't stuff like this in the documentation?

I don't mean to be obtuse Christopher. I'm also currently looking at getting the 717 so I'm weighing up various reviews and youtube videos before I make the choice. Any general thoughts on the 717 in its current state? I realise it was pretty poor on release but I believe there have been many big updates since then.

I will just get to the point mate.

Buy it

 

Chris the amount of flight simming you do, get some rudders mate, even if there of eBay second hand

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Chris, you probably need to hop over to the TFDi 717 forum.  They're very helpful over there.  To get there, open up the TFDi Addon Manager.  The link is along the bottom.

Bruce R

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31 minutes ago, Nyxx said:

I will just get to the point mate.

Buy it

Haha! I know you're a fan Dave. I wasn't actually considering it until I saw a recent post of yours talking about it. It's in BETA for 4.x right?

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47 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

Activating the AFS Override switches has solved the autothrottle problem, but I am still baffled by some aspects of the flight model.

Why would you assume that a t-tail/rear-engine aircraft would have the same flight model as low elev/wing-engine aircraft?  Different is not always bad.

:cool:

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Don’t think so, it shows me it’s ready to install, just doing NG, but will install it tomorrow.

Its very nice. Up there with PMDG.

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1 hour ago, Christopher Low said:

I do not understand the flight characteristics of this aircraft. When I make a turn at low speed, the nose starts to drop. So far, so good. However, the speed increases, and the nose never rises. It just keeps on pointing down. The PMDG 737NGX and 747-400 hand fly superbly at low speed with gear and flaps down, and the nose starts to rise as air speed increases during a turn. They are both very stable, and behave exactly as I would expect. However, the 717 is currently a complete mystery to me.

I really wish that I could learn to save my money, and concentrate on the aircraft that I already have :sad:

 

two different aircraft.  different wing positions, tail styles, and engine placement.  Also the 717 uses leading edge slats, which have a differing effect when extended than traditional trailing edge flaps.  I'm sure there are plenty who know more about the technical detail than me, but iirc slats only provide more lift at higher angles of attack.  so, if you are hand flying, you will need to adapt to the realities of the aircraft.

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Why would you assume that a t-tail/rear-engine aircraft would have the same flight model as low elev/wing-engine aircraft?  Different is not always bad

I tried flying the aircraft again. Smooth climb out after take off, and I started a left turn. If I kept the bank very shallow, the aircraft continued to climb, and the airspeed remained reasonably steady. If I increased the bank angle to one that I would be using normally to enter the pattern (and that's not steep), the airspeed started to increase quite significantly (130 > 170 knots), but the nose did not rise. I then levelled out, and gave it one notch of up trim. The nose slowly started to rise, and the airspeed (eventually) started to drop. It fell back to 130 knots, but the nose continued to rise.

Is that what should happen in a T-tail rear engine jet like the 717? :huh: If so, then I need to stick to flying the 737 and 747!

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I only bought this bird last week and it's really growing on me, despite being a diehard 737 person. I think one of the best aspects of this plane is hand flying it. There are some issues with it ( check their forums to find out), but it seems the Devs are always improving it. Ive only had it for a week and I've  got no dramas completing flights despite my minimal knowledge on its systems. Ive been reading the tfdi manuals which is limited,  but also reading MD11 material on the web. Ithink for the price it's a great addition to the hanger

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Another test......

I set the aircraft up roughly on a final approach path (with gear down and full flaps), with the nose pointed slightly down The speed was around 145 knots. I then increased the engine power to maximum. The airspeed increased to over 210 knots, but the nose continued to very slowly drop. The aircraft never pitched up at all! I can understand an initial pitch down due to increased thrust from engines that may be slightly above the CG, but surely the nose should start to rise as the lift increases? This never happened. It just continued in a dive towards the ground.

Is this how the aircraft should behave?? :huh:

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2 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

Another test......

I set the aircraft up roughly on a final approach path (with gear down and full flaps), with the nose pointed slightly down The speed was around 145 knots. I then increased the engine power to maximum. The airspeed increased to over 210 knots, but the nose continued to very slowly drop. The aircraft never pitched up at all! I can understand an initial pitch down due to increased thrust from engines that may be slightly above the CG, but surely the nose should start to rise as the lift increases? This never happened. It just continued in a dive towards the ground.

Is this how the aircraft should behave?? :huh:

Are you checking your stabiliser trim settings?

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Stabiliser trim is preset to a specific value, but the pitch of the aircraft should surely still respond to airspeed? I have tried a range of settings, but the overall behaviour remains the same.

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I haven't noticed this. I'll do some tests when I get home from work

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To be fair, I am basing my comments on what I expect an aircraft to do with a change in airspeed (all other things being equal). The PMDG 737 and 747 behave exactly as I would expect, but maybe it is different for a T-Tail jet with engines at the rear? The Quality Wings 146 is a T-Tail jet with engines on the wings (so, a sort of "halfway house"), and that behaves the same as the PMDG aircraft.

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4 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

Stabiliser trim is preset to a specific value, but the pitch of the aircraft should surely still respond to airspeed? I have tried a range of settings, but the overall behaviour remains the same.

Yes your right, advancing full throttle from idle whilst in the air does nothing to pitch

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Is that a technical issue that needs to be addressed, or just a quirk of the aircraft? It seems rather odd behaviour to me.

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