Captain777er

Help with P3d V4 4K resolution Dynamic Lights

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Hi all,

I'm not trying to restart the debate abut DL frames rates and who has the highest Fps but I need help setting the sim so it acceptable to fly at night :) What I am trying is to understand from other users with a similar setup (4K especially), if any managed to use the sim without resorting not switching on lights during the nigh, fly only during the day or disable DL.

My setup is i5 6600K 4.5Ghz, GTX980Ti, 16GB DDR4 and 44in 4K monitor. After several test and been told that I have to lower my already low resolution is starting to cause frustration and anger.

From all the posts about the subject it appears and my own tests confirm, if you use a 1080 resolution you should be ok with DL. The fps impact isn't as significant as if you set it up to 4K.

During the day the resolution is 60Fps+(about 40 at FBeam KSFO HD) and about 35Fps at night at a busy airport with the dynamic lights off, becoming 15-10Fps with the lights on. 

Its is becoming clear that people in the same situation are been accused of having cracking up the settings. Can anyone help, since I could not get it sorted when opened (still open) a support ticket?

Regards

Eduardo Teixeira

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1 hour ago, Captain777er said:

Hi all,

I'm not trying to restart the debate abut DL frames rates and who has the highest Fps but I need help setting the sim so it acceptable to fly at night :) What I am trying is to understand from other users with a similar setup (4K especially), if any managed to use the sim without resorting not switching on lights during the nigh, fly only during the day or disable DL.

My setup is i5 6600K 4.5Ghz, GTX980Ti, 16GB DDR4 and 44in 4K monitor. After several test and been told that I have to lower my already low resolution is starting to cause frustration and anger.

From all the posts about the subject it appears and my own tests confirm, if you use a 1080 resolution you should be ok with DL. The fps impact isn't as significant as if you set it up to 4K.

During the day the resolution is 60Fps+(about 40 at FBeam KSFO HD) and about 35Fps at night at a busy airport with the dynamic lights off, becoming 15-10Fps with the lights on. 

Its is becoming clear that people in the same situation are been accused of having cracking up the settings. Can anyone help, since I could not get it sorted when opened (still open) a support ticket?

Regards

Eduardo Teixeira

Eduardo. Just to set the facts straight.

You have never been told to lower your resolution. I told you that I do not have any FPS hit on my machine running @1920*1080. You tested it and you have seen the same. Where did you see that we told you to lower your resolution?

 

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Eduardo, The big plus of higher resolutions is that you can live with lower or NONE Antialiasing AA setting.

For example in my 1440p resolution i am fine with 2x MSAA (although i use 4x MSAA because i can:) )

So for 4k maybe you can live without any AA setting or just 2x MSAA. This will giove you some room for FPS.

On the other hand you can try switch off HDR (although it has no effect in most people).

Autogen sliders should be told to turn right ....

I think that this will give you a possibility to run at night. You could loose some time and see how it behaves. My system is a 3770k@4.3 with 1070....

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4K with one 980 Ti isn't really ideal, heck my 1070, which is supposedly faster than a 980 Ti, struggles at 1440p with moderate to high settings at SFO as well.

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1 hour ago, Olympic260 said:

Eduardo. Just to set the facts straight.

You have never been told to lower your resolution. I told you that I do not have any FPS hit on my machine running @1920*1080. You tested it and you have seen the same. Where did you see that we told you to lower your resolution?

 

Hi Chris,

Can I request that you read my post again? At no point I’ve mentioned that PMDG requested that I lower my resolution. 

The message above indicates that is based on information from forums.

I’ve also mentioned that the support request is still ongoing. Before responding with what sounds like a not very constructive tone, I would request that you read the message one more time and put yourself on my shoes.

Regards

Eduardo

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2 hours ago, Captain777er said:

My setup is i5 6600K 4.5Ghz, GTX980Ti, 16GB DDR4 and 44in 4K monitor.

Mine is a i7 6700K 4.8GHz GTX980Ti and 42-in 4K TV, and I have noticed some impact from dynamic lighting but never as much as say for example the ground camera system in the -300ER.  I think part of the secret to minimize frame rate hit is to lock the frame rate, and I have noticed that scenes that take big hits with unlocked rates are barely affected with a locked rate.  I am using 24 fps now, have used 20 but noticed the anti collision beacon misses fewer blinks at 24.  I run at native 3840x2160 at 60 Hz, I've tried 30Hz and didn't find much of a difference with that.  The one setting that has the most impact on performance seems to be AA, any of the SSAA settings kill me. I am using 4xMSAA right now although I've used 2xMSAA too without much difference. I recommend changing the frame rate readout in the simulator to provide low, avg and peak rate to provide a better view of how that varies.

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1 hour ago, earthdog said:

Eduardo, The big plus of higher resolutions is that you can live with lower or NONE Antialiasing AA setting.

For example in my 1440p resolution i am fine with 2x MSAA (although i use 4x MSAA because i can:) )

So for 4k maybe you can live without any AA setting or just 2x MSAA. This will giove you some room for FPS.

On the other hand you can try switch off HDR (although it has no effect in most people).

Autogen sliders should be told to turn right ....

I think that this will give you a possibility to run at night. You could loose some time and see how it behaves. My system is a 3770k@4.3 with 1070....

Hi Elias,

Thanks for replying!

I've tested at 1440 and is very smooth with great performance. I lose part of my screen. I've also set AA off and autogen to 0 without sucess at 4K.

There might not be a silver bullet for this one.

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2 hours ago, Captain777er said:

Hi Elias,

Thanks for replying!

I've tested at 1440 and is very smooth with great performance. I lose part of my screen. I've also set AA off and autogen to 0 without sucess at 4K.

There might not be a silver bullet for this one.

About loosing part of the screen...maybe you have the wide screen option off in p3d options page?

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Eduardo,

It appears to me (IMHO) that the solution is in the GPU. If you really wana fix to the DL problem it means a GPU upgrade.

What is the GPU that is needed to have no impact on performance? You’ll need to ask around.

I personal think a minimum of a 1080 GPU would probably do it. 

If you have a 4K monitor and if you are like me you’ll want to enjoy 4K resolution.

Its worth the money and you won’t be sorry, 4K is beautiful as you know and why should you not enjoy it too.

I have an aging 4.6 OC 6800K running a Titan X (pascal) on a 65in 4K TV and have absolutely no performance drop when the landing lights are turned on. (8xMSAA) I don’t use SSAA.

Having said that for smooth crystal clear results I must set frames to unlimited, Vsync on in SIM and the TV set to 25hz. (Slight mouse lag on screen due to low HZ but not noticeable when flying)

I use 25hz because in complex 3rd party airports and aircraft my little old OC 4.6 6800K can’t deliver 30fps or more in these harsh FPS demanding sceneries, but it can do 25fps with most slides maxed out. 

Since the TV is at 25hz and Vsync is on, frames get locked at 25 and it’s all smooth stutter free sailing. For some reason if I lock frames in SIM to 25 or anything other than unlimited I get stutters when approaching complex 3rd party airports.

Not a nice feeling having to fork out a few hundred bucks on a new GPU I know, but it is very satisfying seeing a SIM runny the way developers intended it to be seen and by that I mean everything in 4K resolution, slides set for max eye candy and then go sit in your favourite PMDG aircraft and head for the clouds.

Don’t forget to save for a VR headset... now that’s a whole different story. 😁

 

Ice Man

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53 minutes ago, Iceman2 said:

It appears to me (IMHO) that the solution is in the GPU. If you really wana fix to the DL problem it means a GPU upgrade.

Don't forget turning down your sliders to a realistic level. Managing you expectations is always a hard thing for us simmers.

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9 hours ago, Iceman2 said:

Eduardo,

It appears to me (IMHO) that the solution is in the GPU. If you really wana fix to the DL problem it means a GPU upgrade.

What is the GPU that is needed to have no impact on performance? You’ll need to ask around.

I personal think a minimum of a 1080 GPU would probably do it. 

If you have a 4K monitor and if you are like me you’ll want to enjoy 4K resolution.

Its worth the money and you won’t be sorry, 4K is beautiful as you know and why should you not enjoy it too.

I have an aging 4.6 OC 6800K running a Titan X (pascal) on a 65in 4K TV and have absolutely no performance drop when the landing lights are turned on. (8xMSAA) I don’t use SSAA.

Having said that for smooth crystal clear results I must set frames to unlimited, Vsync on in SIM and the TV set to 25hz. (Slight mouse lag on screen due to low HZ but not noticeable when flying)

I use 25hz because in complex 3rd party airports and aircraft my little old OC 4.6 6800K can’t deliver 30fps or more in these harsh FPS demanding sceneries, but it can do 25fps with most slides maxed out. 

Since the TV is at 25hz and Vsync is on, frames get locked at 25 and it’s all smooth stutter free sailing. For some reason if I lock frames in SIM to 25 or anything other than unlimited I get stutters when approaching complex 3rd party airports.

Not a nice feeling having to fork out a few hundred bucks on a new GPU I know, but it is very satisfying seeing a SIM runny the way developers intended it to be seen and by that I mean everything in 4K resolution, slides set for max eye candy and then go sit in your favourite PMDG aircraft and head for the clouds.

Don’t forget to save for a VR headset... now that’s a whole different story. 😁

 

Ice Man

Hi Iceman,

Thank you for taking your time to help me by sharing your experience. I had to turn the resolution down at night if I want to fly with any of the PMDG products because of one setting, a shame because how amazing and crisp the aircraft screens are at 4K.

Funny that, since aviation dictates that there shouldn't be a single point of failure on a system. Always have a backup until you are sure you have taken all matters into account and the system is mature.

Been a simmer for 17+ years, I learned to be cautious with my settings and especially with the money I spend on hardware because of bad coding or new technology been applied prematurely (my belief and opinions, nothing else). Not implying that any of the PMDG products is poorly coded, talking about FSX release here with it been advertised as great visuals but no hardware could keep up at that point.

I believe in evolution and that the new feature will become something we won't be able to live without and working in an sector when change management is a must, the first release of a new tech and completely disable the old one?

That's a dead horse and not going to beat it.

It appears from my research that the issue is the GPU that can't deal with the heavy calculations behind the DL.

- My solution is to wait and see how the new updates come about 

- Use 4K for daytime flights

- Reduce my resolution when taking off or landing at night (can deal and adjust my eyes quicker to lower resolution compared to adjusting to spending £600+ on a GPU)

- Planning to upgrade my PC later next year, till then cross my fingers and toes

Happy landings to you all!

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I personally don't even think a 1080 is enough for 4k and DL. I have a 1080 and a 4k monitor and when I switch the landing lights, cockpit lights and taxi lights in the ngx at an orbx airport at night my GPU pushes around 100% usage and that is when the stutters creep in. For it to be mostly smooth on my system I need to turn off taxi lights and not use it at all.

That's with moderate to low settings and 4xmsaa (changing it to 2xmsaa makes no difference). I also turn shadows off.

So I think a 1080ti is needed which I wish I just waited another 6 months before I bought mine.

 

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29 minutes ago, branks737 said:

I personally don't even think a 1080 is enough for 4k and DL. I have a 1080 and a 4k monitor and when I switch the landing lights, cockpit lights and taxi lights in the ngx at an orbx airport at night my GPU pushes around 100% usage and that is when the stutters creep in. For it to be mostly smooth on my system I need to turn off taxi lights and not use it at all.

That's with moderate to low settings and 4xmsaa (changing it to 2xmsaa makes no difference). I also turn shadows off.

So I think a 1080ti is needed which I wish I just waited another 6 months before I bought mine.

 

Hi Branko,

My friend Eric gave me the same feedback in regards to the 1080 performance. He said that it can't deal with 4K and DL.

I hope that the code is improved because is quite a loss/shame when you see how clear the font and eveything else about the T7 and NGX is at 4K.

Experiences like yours and mine from the past are keeping me from upgrading now.

Take care

Eduardo

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Could it be that there are just so many lights in a sim that dynamic lighting is too much to ask given our current hardware?...or, perhaps, some code optimization is, in fact, required? 

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I have to defend the GTX980Ti here.... an upgrade to the 1080Ti is not cost effective for the minor gains you get.  I am very happy with the 980Ti and have no problems with dynamic lighting with most sceneries.

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