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I've heard different stories about VR flightsim. Some say it's a gift from god, others say "meh, fun in the beginning..."

What's your opinion? I get the feeling that VR and flightsim has not yet launched? Is it because of the resolution-thing? Or the hardware required? Or the fact that the honeymoon is shorter than expected? 

Or is it simply downright awesome?

Any thoughts? I would LOVE to hear that it is still amazing...but please be honest!

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I have been flying with VR for about a year now and love it just as much if not more than the day I got it.  If I had to go back to 2D, even with the Track IR that I was using before, I would probably quit flying sims.  There are limitations such as the reduced graphics quality, etc. but to me they are secondary by a lot shot to the added realism of 3D.

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From my experience, your long term relationship with the current VR technology will depend a lot on your current flightsim preferences.

If your preferred flightsim profile is flying VFR GA unbound by most aspects of real world flying such as ATC, you will likely have a long and satisfying relationship.

If your preferred flightsim profile more closely simulates real world flying, especially in the airline and/or military realms, you will quickly find the limitations.

An important ancillary consideration is the length of your typical flight...generally the longer, the more limiting and uncomfortable the current technology can be. Another consideration is your susceptibility to motion sickness, if you are sensitive, VR may provoke the symptoms.

Of course, opinions vary (much like people in general).

The best that can be said, in my estimation, is that we are still in the early stages of VR technology. More development needed for the state of the technology to match my flightsim preferences.

Hope this helps.

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I agree with above.

VR in an early stage when it comes to resolution and interaction.

That's not to say it can not be fun for flightsim in its current stage.

I for one will wait for the next generation with higher resolution. It should not be too far off.

Cheers.

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I really like VR and fly most of the time this way. I also realize that it is early and resolution will improve, but I figure that for $400, I can get at least two years of VR flying and then sell my Rift for $200. So for the cost of $200 net, I can fly in VR and then get an upgrade when a viable solution is available.

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I think it's also that the vast majority of simmers at sites like this are flying in sims with very limited vr implementation, and which were never designed with Vr in mind. More recent sims, like War Thunder, DCS, Aerofly, and IL2 are much more successful at this point in presenting the optimum framerates, at the maximum resolution currently allowed by the technology. (and with higher settings)

So it's also going to depend on what sims you fly as well as the way you like to fly.

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I find it simply downright awesome and I have not flown using a monitor in a year. As HiFlyer points out it has a lot to do with the VR implementation. I spend all of my flight time in DCS, Aerofly FS 2 and IL2 BOX. As other implementations get better I am sure this will expand but until then I am one happy simmer.   

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Thanks everyone for interesting feedback in this thread. Much appreciated! 

Personally I am very excited about this new technology. Last time I was using Flightsim was maybe 10 years ago, using FS9 on a 19 inch monitor with medium settings. Then I've watched some youtube clips from time to time just to follow the progess over the years, but nothing has really convinced me. People seemed to struggle with the same old issues (FPS, settings, textures, microstutter during the final approach and so on). It wasn't really until I heard about VR that I changed my mind... thinking....THIS could be something extra. This might get me back in the seat! Literally! Sure, the FPS problems are even worse with VR but I guess it's just a matter of time before THAT awesome GPU is released which will handle that. Or I can try the new Aerofly FS2 for VR. 

How I used to fly and how I predict i will still fly in VR;  

I'm a VFR kind of guy with some need for base instrument readouts like ILS and of course the AP. I rarely used the flightcomputers (FMS). Like many others (I guess) I simply enjoyed taxing (after hearing the new soundsets from Blue Sky Star for the X plane JAR A320's I am blown away), taking off in custom weather, go for a short dsitance (max 35 min airtime ) and then land. Then of course, start over somewhere else. I also prefer evening/nightflights, mostly due to more realistic takeoff/approach. 

I hope this will be sooo much better in VR 

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Just the tip of the iceberg. We are at the dawn of a new age of computer interaction and, just like your Model T Ford, you will love it or hate it at first - but give it a few years and you will not be able to live without it. 

I love mine and it is great fun using it to freakout my old guy buddies when they come to visit. 

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12 minutes ago, rjfry said:

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/htc-standalone-daydream-headset-cancelled,news-57315.html

This is not the first a month ago a studio stated it was dropping VR as it was a niche product and not a wide enough market, VR makes up less than 2% in gaming.

It might be correct for them to drop VR but I do think VR is the future and companies that have the foresight to see this and the financial muscle to back it up position their product now for viability further down the line. If you ask me. 

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Yes, I don't see how VR can NOT be the future from now on. The only reason I can think of is motion-sickness and that most popular games are too fast for VR. I once tried a racing-game at a local car dealer - at first I was all "oooh....wow...damn...!" but after just a few minutes of racing I quickly realized that it wasn't going to work without showing the entire store what I had for lunch.

Flightsimming seems perfect though - if the frame rates can be reasonable that is...

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9 hours ago, rjfry said:

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/htc-standalone-daydream-headset-cancelled,news-57315.html

This is not the first a month ago a studio stated it was dropping VR as it was a niche product and not a wide enough market, VR makes up less than 2% in gaming.

It's kind of fashionable right now to cast a a bit of doom and gloom in the vr market, but that article didn't mention that HTC dropped its daydream plans to concentrate on something different: The Vive focus.

No need to work with another company when you have something of your own coming out. The Vive focus will be competing in the same price and type category as the (also new) Oculus Go.

I had actually been debating making a post about the new device, but this is a good place to put it instead.

 

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Lone Echo was made for VR, it is seamless, never a single menu.

 

There is no motion sickness, and it is graphically amazing.

 

And The only reason I will use a monitor for gaming is for screenshots.

 

BTW, I hate console gaming, and PC FPS and other games where you use wsad for movement with the keyboard, etc...

 

FS was my only game, for years.

 

I love flying in VR, but I love many VR games and apps more right now, it has opened a whole new world to me.

 

Ihave flown 5 minutes in a flight sim in about 4-5 months now, and in no mood or hurry to do so again for the near future.

 

I love FS in VR, but right now I am spreading my trucking, racing, and creative wings after years of non interest on a flat monitor.

 

VR is MY future.

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Interesting what you say about motion sickness, I liked the idea of VR but all my experiences have led me to fealing nauseous - which is no fun!

Anybody else got any recommendations for combinations of hardware and software that eliminate this problem?

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4 hours ago, BBDev said:

Interesting what you say about motion sickness, I liked the idea of VR but all my experiences have led me to fealing nauseous - which is no fun!

Anybody else got any recommendations for combinations of hardware and software that eliminate this problem?

I know that the designers are trying many different techniques to help alleviate the issue for those susceptible, but there's really no silver bullet at this point. I guess it might be like going to the amusement park. There are some rides you just need to avoid if you have a sensitive stomach.

(And no sausage with onions and peppers just before you ride on the spinny thing!) o.O

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Although there is no doubt that some are more prone to VR sickness than others, there are things you can do to help out.

Hardware

 The first thing to remember that it is critical to keep high frame rates in VR. This is especially important when you move your head around. Low frame rates will cause slight lag, stutters when you move your head up/down/left/right (especially if you do it quickly). It may not seem much at the time but it will induce VR sickness. The temptation in VR is to dial up the detail to 10 at the sacrifice of VR. In some Vr situations you can do this, others it is not so wise. Generally, if we are talking about Flight sims, you ought to be thinking top end hardware for VR. Yeah you can get by with lesser hardware but really VR min specs are only going to raise as resolution increases.

Eyes and body in conflict

One of the other causes of VR sickness is due to your eyes and body sending out different messages. For instance if you are on a VR rollercoaster, your eyes are teling you that you are twisting all over the place but your body knows you are stationary. Therefore, VR experiences differ greater depending on what you are doing. If you are in an experience where you are sat in a chair and are just looking around in a room then you are very unlikely to get into trouble. However, full on Top Gun F15 dog fighting is probably going to make you as sick as a dog.

Games / Sims

 Some VR experiences can actually differ massively depending on what you do. Driving on a wide open race track is a lot less likely to give you VR sickness than Rally driving wheer there are lots of roadside trees etc whizing past you quite close to you. Also the act of physical movement helps. If you drive with a steering wheel and pedals you are less likely to run into trouble than using a game pad. If you can also add some kind of motion simulator then that also helps to keep your eyes and body in sync.

In flight sims, Bigbird flying is probably the most safe as you are mostly sitting in a chair looking around a cockpit with a 30,000ft blue sky and clouds. Light Aircraft flying can also be quite safe as long as your flying normally with slow movements. If you try whizing through the Alps at low altitude you may start running into trouble etc. Obviously the worst flight situation is fast action combat, esplecially low altitude. Again if you have proper flight controls and motion simulation it will help some. The worst game situation is probably FPS. Anything where you walk forwards and turn on the spot can be really bad.

 Notice your VR sickness

 VR sickness tends to start with getting hot and clammy, a hot face / sweating can also occur in early stages. If you take a break at this stage it is quite easy to recover. Next comes the sickness in the stomach which can increase until you feel really bad indeed. If you leave it this long until you stop you will probably find it will take a long time to recover. Some say that you can break through this sickness by keep going, however doing that is a bit like seeing how long you hold off before you go to the toilet.... if you get it wrong it will be very messy!

 

Everyone is different

 Very few people don't get VR sickness. The rest of us do. A few have extreme VR sickness and never really improve. The majority of us can mitigate it and get used to it in some way. The key is to experiment and find boundaries that you can tolorate. Some things work better standing, others sitting down. Most oculus experiences are rated for "comfort". I suggest starting with "comfortable" experiences to start and then try "moderate". Find what works for you and try not to get too influanced by people pushing you into directions because it doesn't make them sick. Find your own way. Good luck!

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Thus far 2 things have made me nauseous, the Alien game-while looking at the computer terminal screen for directions, and once while turning and walking backwards at the same time in MineCraft VR.

 

I deleted Alien because I could go no further without getting sick, but could not recreate the motion sickness in the Minecraft demo so I bought it.

 

But Lone Echo was designed just for VR, and done right, so MS should not occur.

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6 hours ago, caaront said:

But Lone Echo was designed just for VR, and done right, so MS should not occur.

 With the deepest of respect, that statement is not entirely a correct reflection of the full situtation. Just because a game is designed for VR, it doesn't neccessarily mean it resolves all sickness issues.

  There is no doubt that Lone Echo is designed very well and they have gone great lengths to try to reduce sickness in a floating body game (which can cause extreme sickness if done badly). However despite there efforts it still can cause issues. I know this purely because I have Lone Echo and it causes me to have mild issues which are bad enough to force me to stop (and I play driving and flight sims all the time without issue). For me, the mild sickness issues outweigh my general interest in the gameplay so although I tried playing several times,  I have now given up completely.

Also if you look at Oculus own "Comfort" rating for this game, it is set as "Moderate". Therefore even Oculus themselves recognise it can cause issues.

Finally, there are plenty of other posts showing other people having issues with Lone Echo...

https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/6skl2v/lone_echo_locomotion_not_for_everyone_im_afraid/

 As per my previous post, I think its important that everone finds there own personal VR level of comfort and try not to take to much heed of sweeping generalisations.

 

  • Upvote 1

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On ‎11‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 9:16 AM, BBDev said:

Interesting what you say about motion sickness, I liked the idea of VR but all my experiences have led me to fealing nauseous - which is no fun!

Anybody else got any recommendations for combinations of hardware and software that eliminate this problem?

The advice that flipperflops gives is very very good advice, another thing that may help at the outset is take a couple of Dramamine. I used this when I got a bit queasy, and it helps quite a bit. For most of your flying when starting out don't do sharp turns or steep dives until you become accustomed to it. I still sometimes feel a bit uneasy after an extensive helicopter run with a lot of really quick turns. By building up to it I can usually do a couple of hours in flight without any problems, but I did have to work up to it first. I was somewhat surprised that I would get motion sickness, in my younger days I never got sea sick at sea or any kind of motion sickness. Age has a way of changing things however.

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On ‎11‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 9:16 AM, BBDev said:

Interesting what you say about motion sickness, I liked the idea of VR but all my experiences have led me to fealing nauseous - which is no fun!

Anybody else got any recommendations for combinations of hardware and software that eliminate this problem?

Didn't mean to double this message. 

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I mostly fly airliners and cant go back to 2d monitor flying.  I feel my aircraft control especially landings have improved as I can get a much better feel of what the aircraft is doing.  Taking off I can nearly feel Im being pressed back in my seat.  My only complaint is the low resolution but hopefully that improves in the future.  I pre-ordered the rift and have used it quite often since its release early last year.  I was able to push through some bouts of motion sickness but it does depend on the title.  P3D/Xp I've never had motion sickness with.  One game, 'Adrift' is the only one that really did a number on me, never played it again.  

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3 hours ago, pegruder said:

My only complaint is the low resolution but hopefully that improves in the future.

It will. Already the WMR headsets are a step up in resolution, with the Samsung Odyssey specifically finally boasting readable small type text.

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Thanks for all the advice, I'll try some of the suggestions and see if it helps, I'm sure VR is the future so I'd like to be part of it!

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